Home Southwest General Fishing & The Outdoors

FWC to ban jig fishing in BGP

1679111269

Replies

  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    There needs to be a quantitative measurement matrix established that indicates an accepted level of d-o-u-c-h-ebagness within 1 square mile. This measurement will also help monitor the rise of d-o-u-c-h-ebaggery within a particular area.

    We need to keep this scientific and base all future decisions on controlled studies.

    Right, Collecckkio?

    You've just established the baseline.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
  • Captain SlayerCaptain Slayer Posts: 29 Greenhorn
    Classic, oldhewes i love it. Similar to a system i had in mind!!
  • capeanglercapeangler Posts: 586 Officer
    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    Do you really think guides won't come to BGP if the jig is banned? (your naive or ignorant- flip a coin)
    In the last 10 years, we’ve seen less and less of “Certain” Jig Guides, only to find them running their trips in TB and the beaches all up and down Pinellas, Manatee and Sarasota Counties, and especially CH and PIS. I don’t need to name them. If you have any time vested in BGP since 1995, then you know who they are. BGP Jig Fishing was/is way too easy for Guides. It had the ingredients for Guides to run two, and in some case three trips a day, especially with pickup/drop offs at BGM and the Guide Docks, etc. A little more difficult now, and certainly more costly, if one has to spend a great deal of time (Fuel $) idling (Or in their cases, running) up and down the beaches from LGI south to CC and beyond, to try to find a pod willing to eat, plus the costs of travel, lodging & time away from their families, etc. You will find more and more, booking trips closer to home to offset expenses, if they could only realistically run a trip a day. So YES, based on principal economics, and the old framework of running BGP Jig Trips, you will see less traveling guides. Ignorant or naïve? No, just a smarter than someone who believes there will not be an inherent thinning of the crowds.
    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    Do you really think people will change courtesy behaviors if they are not jigging? (What is tied to the end of the line does not make you an a$$*ole, you start out that way then tie something on the line)

    No, an a$$hole will be an a$$hole, regardless, if they have a Fly, Jig, Crab or Thread on the end of their line. Jigging the Pass is only effective by proper presentation, which is only effective by proper boat position. There are umpteen pages on how this is done in this section of the forum alone. Read up on it, and you’ll see what I am talking about. Because this is the “Way” things are done, and it is not uncommon to ban together like a bunch of little gangster thugs to intimidate, push, coerce or otherwise, impose their will of fishing/boating technique on the pass, where by actions, they all behave like a bunch of inconsiderate a$$holes. Do that 60 days straight and it becomes habitual. It unfortunately sets a precedence for others. You have to be (As you say) naïve, ignorant or a duma$$ to believe, that a part of the lack of etiquette you see now with many young guides/recs, are not learned from observing, if not playing a role in the circus at the pass. Ditch your tower boat, rent a poling skiff, and fish the flats of the upper keys for bonefish or the flats if Flamingo for Redfish. You will see a night and difference between fishing talent and etiquette, both on a guide and rec angler standpoint. Same generations, just two different breeds, influenced and driven by different values. Gitterduns fishing down there will have to conform, or leave, and bet you’re a$$; the guiding community won’t put up with the tower boat mentality of the W and SW coast of FL guides.
    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    This is the age of youtube, facebook, and forums and if you think the "young anglers" will now learn traditional ways to "respect the fishery" from "Old Salts" any different if jigging is banned - well... go light your candle to read this and tow your boat trailer with a horse. ( whatever the coin landed on earlier, now it’s the other one)

    Actually, I do. I believe there are still good people, many of them. The issue is you, and others like you, who don’t now, nor will ever, contribute toward the betterment of this lifestyle. If anything, you endorse the actions of the few. Joining the idiots because you think you can’t make a difference or are afraid to try to make a difference, well, IMO, your just as bad.

    You are not born with Etiquette or Respect. Etiquette and Respect is learned. Driving up on plane within 50’ or 100’ of a boat working a school of anything is learned. Saying “May I” and “I am Sorry” is learned. Riding up the east or west wall, when one can clearly run the outside of the bar, is learned. For sure, some of us had decent Moms and Dads that cared enough to teach us values.
    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    I wish we could also return to a tradition that seems to have eroded...the American one that believes in respecting individual freedoms and not try to shove your personal ethics and beliefs down the throats of others as long as no crime or laws are being broken. It is a right to protest and lobby your government to change laws and I support that 100%. Make the case for a benefit to the fishery to FWC- no argument from me.

    Yes, and at times, greed takes the better of us. Wasn’t it legal to totally decimate certain species in certain areas, to a point where the government finally had to step in when entire stocks were at the point of extermination (Redfish, Swordfish, Bluefin, Scallops, Conch, etc.)? Why did sportsman/ conservationist ban together to help ban gill nets, overdevelopment, industrial pollution, etc., etc.? It was all legal as you say, and everyone had choices. There were many who chose the short sided position of filling their pockets. Should we rely on the Government to initiate steps to protect what is rightfully ours? They’ve failed miserably. If the government had the foresight to step in, we would never of had such a history of widespread issues. If we had the foresight and compassion to act responsibly, the Government would have never had to step in.

    The egotistical & thoughtless Gitterdun attitude of “I’m going to continue what I am doing until someone stops me” is the primary culprit to many societal problems. As you say, to think otherwise, is “Ignorant or Naïve” …..flip a coin.

    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    It is vigilante-ism and thuggish to confront and persecute private citizens acting within the law and regulations because you disagree. Be sure to do it Memorial Day weekend when the Wounded Warriors are honored. Go screw up their fishing day; fishing legally within the regs when they are the ones that paid the price for you to be able to fish at all.

    ?? Really. Let’s see, a group of boats protesting on the Hill is interferes with the Jiggers rights to fish the pass? Drifting shark bait with long leaders through the pass interferes with the Jiggers rights to fish the pass? Anchoring on the side of the channel to fish for Snapper, etc., interferes with the Jiggers right to fish the pass? If you believe that, I’ll take it a step further and say, “Idiot/Moron or ****”, flip a coin. Quite the contrary, it is the fishing/boating technique of the Jigger, that interferes with the casual boater who has to navigate through the crowd and/or John from Minnesota who’s casting live shrimp in his Lund at all of the rolling Tarpon.
  • AlwaysAbuAlwaysAbu Posts: 476 Deckhand
    capeangler wrote: »
    Yes, and at times, greed takes the better of us. Wasn’t it legal to totally decimate certain species in certain areas, to a point where the government finally had to step in when entire stocks were at the point of extermination (Redfish, Swordfish, Bluefin, Scallops, Conch, etc.)? Why did sportsman/ conservationist ban together to help ban gill nets, overdevelopment, industrial pollution, etc., etc.? It was all legal as you say, and everyone had choices. There were many who chose the short sided position of filling their pockets. Should we rely on the Government to initiate steps to protect what is rightfully ours? They’ve failed miserably. If the government had the foresight to step in, we would never of had such a history of widespread issues. If we had the foresight and compassion to act responsibly, the Government would have never had to step in.

    The egotistical & thoughtless Gitterdun attitude of “I’m going to continue what I am doing until someone stops me” is the primary culprit to many societal problems. As you say, to think otherwise, is “Ignorant or Naïve” …..flip a coin.

    I dont expect the government to "step in" unless citizens are proactive, the government is we, of, and by the people remember? And petitioning government is fine, what does that have to do with being confrontational and harassing to private citizens acting legally because you don't agree. We are talking about 3 hours on a Sunday for a few weeks. The new tournament rules say they will not gaff, drag, or weigh and meansure boatside. That is the practice of MOST recreational tarpon anglers across the state, is that a problem too?

    There is a difference between conservation groups like for billfish and others defending the sustainability of a fishery and petitioning for regulations that would aid in doing so, and a competitor that has chosen to hide behind sustainability as a front to force another competitor out of business in an industry. Does inviting sponsors to join the World's Richest Tarpon tournament instead of PTTS helps the sustainability of the fishery? Is that being conservation minded or competitor minded?

    The argument is jigging is snagging and is unethical, see all the attachments in the lawsuit that has been entered to demonstrate that is the position of the Guide Association with images of the jig and captioned "No snagging". And a study could easily prove that. If I beleived that was true and was active in trying to ban that, why wouldnt I document an objective study as evidence to put before FWC? I can't find that youtube video???

    It has nothing to do with conservation or sustainability. There is no risk to tarpon populations based on current harvest regulations based on current studies. There is no conclusive study demonstrating the tarpon are being snagged and not striking, in fact the opposite is the current published opinion of FWC biologists. If it were so I would be the first to call for the ban of jigging for tarpon, but instead of believing FWC studies, I should just take the word of people who think the pass and the tarpon there only belong to locals, dislike out of town competition that affects their income, and because they fish differently in other ways are wrong?

    So we are back to "banning the way someone else does things because we dont like it." Certainly there is an etiquette and order to fishing the pass. But the deception that this is about the fish is nothing more than a joke on the gullable who dont know any better. I want to save tarpon too, if only that was the cause...
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    We have the same idiot behavior seen in BGP up here in Tampa.

    I suppose they learned it while watching the PTTS, eh?

    Of course they didn't.

    That's what happens when you put too many fishermen in too small an area.

    Doesn't matter if it's Tampa Bay, Charlotte Harbor, Egmont, BGP, or the Keys.
  • capeanglercapeangler Posts: 586 Officer
    Tarponator wrote: »
    We have the same idiot behavior seen in BGP up here in Tampa.

    I suppose they learned it while watching the PTTS, eh?

    Of course they didn't.

    That's what happens when you put too many fishermen in too small an area.

    Doesn't matter if it's Tampa Bay, Charlotte Harbor, Egmont, BGP, or the Keys.

    As a kid, i remember fishing streams for steelehead up north. Too many fisherman in too small of an area. I remember an older fisherman teaching me the ropes on how to fish the stream. In fact I remember a couple people politley reminding me how to fish the stream. I also remember the basic rules of fishing etiquette and respect I was taught at home. For as much steelhead and trout fishing I did in congested streams, it was quite pleasant, organized and peaceful.

    Its ironic you say the BGP behavior is common in Tampa Bay. Aren't most of the jiggers and PTTS competitors from Pasco North Pinellas and Hillsborough? Arent they the same model figures setting an example for the local recs and guides to follow?

    All kidding aside, what do you think is the primary cause for the break down in etiquette, that does not just occur during tarpon season?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    I look fondly back on my childhood fishing memories, but we both know it's quite a different world these days....

    "Its ironic you say the BGP behavior is common in Tampa Bay. Aren't most of the jiggers and PTTS competitors from Pasco North Pinellas and Hillsborough? Arent they the same model figures setting an example for the local recs and guides to follow?"

    No, the folks from up my way causing all the problems are in BGP during tarpon season, remember? They're not fishing Egmont. They're not fishing the Keys or the Skyway bridges. They are spending all season milking the BGP cash cow. Yet, the the same problems are there as are in BGP. That suggests that the problem is not the jig, nor the out of town guides, but rather the behavior of some not showing courtesy towards others that's the real issue.

    "All kidding aside, what do you think is the primary cause for the break down in etiquette, that does not just occur during tarpon season? "

    IMO, the primary cause is too many people in too small an area. Wherever one sees this -- and it matters not if you're fishing for tarpon, redfish, snook, grouper or bass -- the same thing happens. People's personal space is infringed and tempers flare.

    The fact that in BGP there is whole lot of money on the line only makes those tempers quicker to flare and the flames higher when they do.

    Without a common and shared set of rules/etiquette, the lowest common denominator wins and that's what is driving the fishery in a downward spiral.

    Blame the jig/PTTS if you want, but I'm not so sure that's the real issue here. The real issue here is increasing fishing pressure, the lack of common courtesy by some, and influence of the almighty dollar. None of those have easy answers, however, and certainly not as "easy" as "banning the jig" or "ending the PTTS".

    But will it really solve the problem? Perhaps we shall see....>Mike
  • capeanglercapeangler Posts: 586 Officer
    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    I dont expect the government to "step in" unless citizens are proactive, the government is we, of, and by the people remember? And petitioning government is fine, what does that have to do with being confrontational and harassing to private citizens acting legally because you don't agree. We are talking about 3 hours on a Sunday for a few weeks. The new tournament rules say they will not gaff, drag, or weigh and meansure boatside. That is the practice of MOST recreational tarpon anglers across the state, is that a problem too?

    There is a difference between conservation groups like for billfish and others defending the sustainability of a fishery and petitioning for regulations that would aid in doing so, and a competitor that has chosen to hide behind sustainability as a front to force another competitor out of business in an industry. Does inviting sponsors to join the World's Richest Tarpon tournament instead of PTTS helps the sustainability of the fishery? Is that being conservation minded or competitor minded?

    The argument is jigging is snagging and is unethical, see all the attachments in the lawsuit that has been entered to demonstrate that is the position of the Guide Association with images of the jig and captioned "No snagging". And a study could easily prove that. If I beleived that was true and was active in trying to ban that, why wouldnt I document an objective study as evidence to put before FWC? I can't find that youtube video???

    It has nothing to do with conservation or sustainability. There is no risk to tarpon populations based on current harvest regulations based on current studies. There is no conclusive study demonstrating the tarpon are being snagged and not striking, in fact the opposite is the current published opinion of FWC biologists. If it were so I would be the first to call for the ban of jigging for tarpon, but instead of believing FWC studies, I should just take the word of people who think the pass and the tarpon there only belong to locals, dislike out of town competition that affects their income, and because they fish differently in other ways are wrong?

    So we are back to "banning the way someone else does things because we dont like it." Certainly there is an etiquette and order to fishing the pass. But the deception that this is about the fish is nothing more than a joke on the gullable who dont know any better. I want to save tarpon too, if only that was the cause...

    I totally see your point.

    For years, I spent the latter part of Mar, all of April, and again July through Sep Tarpon Fishing in the harbor and PIS. I spent the entire months of May & June fishing BGP and the surrounding beaches; mornings in the pass, and afternoons in the pass/pan/beaches, etc., etc. Needless to say, I spent every morning cranking 9/0 J-Hooks on 50lb Mono through tightly wadded schools of giant white bait way before the PTTS came into the equation and YES, my boat sure as chit snagged a lot of Tarpon! In fact, I recall very very few ever being hooked inside the mouth. I gave up the bait caster for a spinner over a decade ago. Now, I just fun fish as often as I can. Needless to say, I don’t give a crap about the vested interests of the PTTS, the old time BG Live Bait Boats, the Jig Boats nor the new mainstream Tower Fleets corralling schools of fish way out past the Pan. I don’t care about the little clicks from Pasco, PI, or Burntstore, etc., etc. I care about preserving the fishery for all of us to enjoy; for my kids to enjoy.

    To jig effectively, you’re snagging fish…period! To snag fish effectively, you will operate your boat in a manner that infringes on the navigational and fishing rights of others, period! 30-50-70 boats doing the same thing for sixty days straight, and it’s a miracle the Tarpon keep coming back to the pass. It’s a miracle nobody has been killed due to boat rage or falling in the water and being hit/run over by another boat, etc., etc.

    So in the end, if you don’t have an interest in any BG group, and you read between the BS, you will see exactly what is going on. The BGP Fishery has issues. Snagging Fish, Disruption of Feeding/Spawning Patterns, Pollution, Navigational Hazards, etc., etc. The PTTS was the cover page for the BGP Jig Fisherman, and through media, they attracted unwanted attention to themselves and to an area already saturated with guides and recs. They promoted dangerous boatmanship, poor angling etiquette, and total disregard for the well-being of their bread and butter. Yes, they were the easy target. So bad management decisions, and now it’s time for them and the Jigger to go. Nobody is pushing them out. It’s the technique, mentality and attitude that must go.

    As for the BGWRTT and the little BG Live Bait Click, I do agree, they have their own preference. It's the preference they've had since the beginning of time. They are not stupid and they know they can't have the pass to themselves. That agenda, I personally believe, faded away many many years ago. But as said above, with first hand experience, I see the problems the Jig Fishery has created for the fish and fishery in BGP, and now it’s time to man up and subscribe to a new era or git the buck out. Yes, I’d rather drift through the pass alongside 60 live bait boats, then try to drift through 30 Jig Boats!

    These days, I only fish BGP, during the afternoon flush; just another illustration that my motives are purely for the fishery and not my own personal agenda.
  • AlwaysAbuAlwaysAbu Posts: 476 Deckhand
    As much tax revenue that is generated from BGP I should think it could fund a full time FWC patrol everyday in the pass during the season and a blue lights and a few reckless boating tickets handed out and the word would get around to not be a jerk or it will cost you. Could it be that simple to solve the etiquette issue? Or maybe only allow jig fishing M-F because of the technique involved is unsafe during high volume boating weekends? I have been a long time advocate that all tournaments should be held during the week only. I think there is lots of middle ground.

    The other issues such as snagging, fishery sustainability, pressure,etc should be science based objective findings that both sides should agree to live with whatever the findings result in to give favor to the fish.

    I watched Blair Wiggins sight fish to a redfish in Mosquito lagoon on the last episode of addictive fishing and hooked the redfish in the pectorial fin with a DOA shrimp when the fish missed it on the strike. Foul hooking can happen anywhere and anytime so I just hope there is a scientific study to determine if it is snagging a non feeding fish or foul hooking a striking tarpon and disspell the debate.
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    Abu and Gary C. are going to conduct yet another scientific study to determine if there is a correlation between the hours they spend watching Jerry Springer......... are synchronized perfectly with the number of foul hooked fish they capture every week.

    Since both measurable variables are high in relation to to the average of the general recreational angling population, we shall assume the result will be appropriately peer reviewed as to not suggest a bias towards their inability to actually land a fish by conventional means.
  • AlwaysAbuAlwaysAbu Posts: 476 Deckhand
    whitebacon wrote: »
    I didn't hope. I didn't pray. I promised I would get this done through legislation. I'm not done. I'm not playing. Who influenced the board? Me. Go look up the old threads.

    Welcome to hell PTTS.

    Your on the clock...git- R- Done...Week 1 is in just a few days.
    whitebacon wrote: »
    There is more truth in today's comments than perhaps in a year.

    The earlier comments.....yes the PTTS is on their last desperate leg.

    The latter comments......yes the jiggers are still screwing up the fish from dawn til dusk.

    LGI, ABU, I promise if the the PTTS doesn't hold that 3rd, 4th, and/or 5th tournament this year, I will reveal myself, donate $5,000 to the charity of your choice, and take you dinner at a restaurant of your choosing. If, collectively, we're certain the PTTS won't be back, I will make it $10,000.

    If you can "deliver" what your mouth has promised why don't you GUARANTEE the PTTS is unable to hold a "3rd, 4th, and/or 5th tournament..."? Anyone could say if the sun doesnt come up tomorrow I will donate $5K...no risk there just like your big talk offers doesnt risk anything...
    whitebacon wrote: »
    Abu and Gary C. are going to conduct yet another scientific study to determine if there is a correlation between the hours they spend watching Jerry Springer......... are synchronized perfectly with the number of foul hooked fish they capture every week.

    Since both measurable variables are high in relation to to the average of the general recreational angling population, we shall assume the result will be appropriately peer reviewed as to not suggest a bias towards their inability to actually land a fish by conventional means.

    Your mouth is better than any one I have seen on Springer...unscripted but just as insulting and ignorant. This isnt supposed to be about individuals...Remember you are a conservationist trying to save the tarpon.:blahblah
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    I just got word there are about 40 boats that are going to be in the pass on day 1 of the PTTS.

    The movement this year is going to be quite large.

    Will be funny to watch the PTTS guys trying to manuver around that many boats.

    I can't wait to see what happens.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    So STT has more than 20k "likes" and "about 40 boats" are to show up.

    0.2% turnout is "quite large"????

    Sounds to me like it's the same group of folks who were involved in last year's protest -- mostly competing guides (live bait and BGFGA) and their friends/families.

    According to reports, the PTTS will no longer utilize the "gaff and drag" and the weigh boat is no more.

    So, is this about saving the tarpon, is this about etiquette, or is it really about local guides gaining access to the lucrative sunrise bite in BGP?
  • LGILGI Posts: 348 Officer
    I'm betting it will be more than 40 boats. I do wonder what they are going to do when they get to the pass.

    Are they going to interfere with the the PTTS fishing or just drive around with signs?

    Seems to me it will be a bit hypocritical to protest the way the PTTS interferes with fishing the pass by doing the same thing.

    I guess we will see how they conduct themselves. To me that will be the true test of STT.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »
    So STT has more than 20k "likes" and "about 40 boats" are to show up.

    0.2% turnout is "quite large"????

    Sounds to me like it's the same group of folks who were involved in last year's protest -- mostly competing guides (live bait and BGFGA) and their friends/families.

    According to reports, the PTTS will no longer utilize the "gaff and drag" and the weigh boat is no more.

    So, is this about saving the tarpon, is this about etiquette, or is it really about local guides gaining access to the lucrative sunrise bite in BGP?



    Mike,

    You don't think all 20K have boats do you?

    Don't you think that a husband and wife and kids could like the page, but only have 1 boat for the family?

    I got word that 40 boats are confirmed from the launch at Placida. I am sure MANY more will show up.

    I will be happy to see the PTTS go. I would be happy to see every single tournament in the area go. I could care less about the tarpon. I only like to catch the 20 - 70 #'s anyways.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    You don't think all 20K have boats do you?

    No, of course not. Still sounds like a very low turnout given the large numbers of "likes" they've received, but perhaps I'm just being cynical.

    I got word that 40 boats are confirmed from the launch at Placida. I am sure MANY more will show up.

    That's not what you said before, but regardless, I suppose we shall see.
    I will be happy to see the PTTS go. I would be happy to see every single tournament in the area go. I could care less about the tarpon. I only like to catch the 20 - 70 #'s anyways.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that you "could care less about the tarpon". At least you're honest.

    If all of that is true, why will you be protesting one tournament along side the organizer of others?

    Curiously yours...Mike
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    LGI wrote: »
    Seems to me it will be a bit hypocritical to protest the way the PTTS interferes with fishing the pass by doing the same thing.

    I was thinking the very same thing.

    However, this whole situation smacks of hypocrisy, and this is simply the latest example.

    That said, I can certainly understand the "eye for an eye" or "let's give 'em a taste of their own medicine" mentality being shown, even if I don't necessarily agree with it....Mike
  • capeanglercapeangler Posts: 586 Officer
    The best way to protest, is to fish the pass in a manner that is as safe as possible for the fish and safe & considerate to the anglers & guides who also have the same rights to the pass. It should not matter if you’re from some Gitterdun neighborhood in Port Richey, Odessa, Pine Island, Port Charlotte or Maine. Everyone has the same rights and should be treated with the utmost respect and consideration. Everyone opposed to Jigging and the PTTS, and its effects on BGP, should make long drifts through the pass with live bait. Those that want to fish for Mackerel & Snapper, should drop a line and do the same. Nobody should feel intimidated, and everyone should also have the same rights to drift through the pass or even anchor at the edge of the channel. One drifting should not have to move out of someone’s way, because some Jig Monkey in Spandex is trying to stay over a school of fish. One should not have the same idiot pull within 5 feet of their boat because they just happen to be up current of a pod. Nobody should ever be yelled at because they are not fishing or maneuvering their boat in the same fashion as everyone else. Nobody should ever be told to reel up their lines or even move, because they are in the way of an approaching school of fish or jigger.

    Yes, this is about the Tarpon. If you’ve jigged the pass as often as some of us has, then you CANNOT deny you snag almost every fish you jump off the line in the first few seconds. Thus far, not many who contribute to these threads and support jigging, admit releasing any numbers of fish jigging the pass. In fact, most have admitted they don’t, have never, maybe once, Jigged the pass, yet they support the technique they know nothing or very little about. So how many Tarpon has everyone here landed by Jig in the Pass??????? Those that have jigged for years, have admitted they snag fish, if not almost every fish hooked, yet, nobody seems convinced.

    So yes, this is about the Tarpon (a). But let's not be foolish; this is also about ethics and etiquette (b). Banning the Technique, accomplishes task A, and overtime, will improve task b.

    Drift baits for Tarpon, Snapper, Shark, Mackerel through the pass on the day of a PTTS event, and those of you who have been blinded all of these years, will see exactly what I mean.
  • LGILGI Posts: 348 Officer
    Capeangler,

    That is what I think they should do, just go drift the pass and fish. Ditch the bullhorns, just go fish how you like and film what happens and if the PTTS causes a problem then post it for all to see.
  • RCarbonRCarbon Posts: 256 Officer
    Sylvester Dixon helped us out of a huge fudge up with the boat a few years ago.. Took time to help us out even with paying customers on board.. I owe him a cold one next time I see him..
  • Captain SlayerCaptain Slayer Posts: 29 Greenhorn
    LGI, im not sure that them all drifting the pass will cause as much havoc on the top ptts dogs as having to edit hours of audio filled with bullhorns..
  • jrimmer1987jrimmer1987 Posts: 70 Deckhand
    Bull Horns will not work. The FWC will be out in full force and will shutdown bullhorns fast. Horns are designed as a distress signal and are not to be abused....Wont work. Drifting thru the pack will be much more effective.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    capeangler wrote: »
    Yes, this is about the Tarpon. If you’ve jigged the pass as often as some of us has, then you CANNOT deny you snag almost every fish you jump off the line in the first few seconds. Thus far, not many who contribute to these threads and support jigging, admit releasing any numbers of fish jigging the pass. In fact, most have admitted they don’t, have never, maybe once, Jigged the pass, yet they support the technique they know nothing or very little about. So how many Tarpon has everyone here landed by Jig in the Pass??????? Those that have jigged for years, have admitted they snag fish, if not almost every fish hooked, yet, nobody seems convinced.

    Three points...

    First, if you've lost the fish and don't see the hook position, how could anyone say "you snag almost every fish you jump off the line in the first few seconds". I lose lots of fish on the first few seconds with live bait. Were all those fish snagged? Of course not, that's simply tarpon fishing. And you know what, those on the other side of this debate said the same thing about outside-in hook placement...until I showed you with hard evidence that it happens with regularity with live bait too. Then the story changed yet again....now we are to believe it's the ones that go away that were snagged. Please pardon me if I remain skeptical.

    Second, the reasons some may remain unconvinced is because there's been absolutely no hard evidence to support your contention. Furthermore, there is a very public FWC report that directly denies it. The proof should be easy to provide if what you're saying is correct. As many have called for on this very forum -- video the snagging and post it on youtube. It is a simple request, but much like Whitebacon's wager, it has gone unanswered. All you have to do is have a disinterested third party (I'd be happy to volunteer, heck I'll even buy the camera) watch the entire thing, and I think your argument would then sway those who might believe this is nothing but a power play for the early morning BGP fi$hery. After all, the loudest voices in this debate are the ones who have the most to gain (i.e. more clients, more successful tournaments, or local access to the morning hours), and we would be silly to ignore self-interest as a motivating factor.

    Third, please don't misconstrue my distrust of those who are telling me to believe one thing (for what seem to me to be very obviou$ reasons and without evidence) with supporting a technique. I'm simply not willing to make that leap of faith against more than twenty years of infighting around this issue. SHOW ME. PUT IT ON VIDEO.

    It's not about the tarpon. It never has been. It's about protecting (or limiting) our rights to fish them.

    If it were about the tarpon, we would be focused on the elephants in the room -- sharks and fight times. Instead it's all about the jig, etiquette, how Joey want's the out-of-towerns to go home, and how Whitebacon is responsible for everything that has happend or will happen in the pass.

    And that's the saddest thing of it all, to me, at least. We're focusing on entirely the wrong problem if it's the tarpon that we're truly trying to "save".

    But, then again, it's never really been about saving the tarpon.

    Respectfully submitted as my honest and humble opinion...Mike
  • LGILGI Posts: 348 Officer
    Bull Horns will not work. The FWC will be out in full force and will shutdown bullhorns fast. Horns are designed as a distress signal and are not to be abused....Wont work. Drifting thru the pack will be much more effective.

    I think they plan on speaking on the bullhorn and there is a Supreme Court case that says that is protected speech. The FWC can not do anything to stop the use of a bullhorn for speech. State v. Catalano (Fla., 2012) if anyone wants to take it with them to give to the FWC.

    Slayer, I get that the bullhorn may be a bigger problem for the PTTS than just fishing. I just think if they just fished it would better make their point about how the PTTS hogs the pass.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »
    No, of course not. Still sounds like a very low turnout given the large numbers of "likes" they've received, but perhaps I'm just being cynical.




    That's not what you said before, but regardless, I suppose we shall see.



    It doesn't surprise me at all that you "could care less about the tarpon". At least you're honest.

    If all of that is true, why will you be protesting one tournament along side the organizer of others?

    Curiously yours...Mike


    I am not a big protester. I will be out there in the PTTS mess just to get a good laugh.

    It will be on of those "train wrecks" that you can't turn away from.

    I have never said it was about the tarpon. I would rather catch 20 redfish a day than 3 or 4 tarpon.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »
    how Joey want's the out-of-towerns to go home


    If this could happen, you would not hear me say a word about jigging.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    At least you're honest....albeit in rather backwards way to me...but honest nonetheless, and I can respect that.

    Now if we can only make your contributions to these threads constructive, we might really be getting somewhere. ;)

    Take care...Mike
  • Captain SlayerCaptain Slayer Posts: 29 Greenhorn
    CApe angler raises an interesting point.. Many that frequent this forum jig fish regularly during the season. Why have only a few players spoken out in " what i believe honest" accounts of hook placement and percentages while jig and live baiting? These are respectible men i believe there honest in what they speak. I have seen many fish snagged or if you prefer hooked outside the mouth with a jig, only one freak incident while live baiting. The numbers are staggering and one sided when the two styles are compared. So why dont we hear more jiggers speak of the large percentages of fish snagged? Boy i wonder... Instead they defend their human right to fish a "legal" method of fishing due to some shady FWC study. Why be so quiet about numbers? You may honestly think they are trying to eat the jig then somehow get hooked in the eyeball or ****, thats fine lets hear about it. The only guys with a sack to talk about it were hughes and boyette and they of course must have had an agenda. So lets hear some honest numbers from u practicing jiggers and supporters...
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 15,952 AG
    You ask a very good question, methinks. Like you, I'd love to hear from others with significant jigging experience.

    I know Abu has jigged. He even participated in the PTTS. Lastly, he's a recreational fisherman without any investment in the fishery. Interestingly enough he disagrees with the snagging argument based on his own observations and words.

    Getting past that, I think it is quite disingenuous to call out the FWC study as "shady". It was done by real scientists without any agenda, at least one of which has dedicated most of her adult life to the study of tarpon. It was peer reviewed, and the study was done at the request of the same group, the BGFGA, who is also part of the driving force behind the STT. If you have an issue with the study, please do articulate it in more detail, but to dismiss it as "shady" because you presumably disagree with the conclusions is not very fair.

    Lastly, I've foul hooked tarpon in the belly with a baitbuster and in the eye while live bait fishing. It happens. It happens more regularly, for whatever reason, when we use artificial lures. the same is true for virtually all gamefish. The key is what the tarpon is actually doing when the hook gets stuck in an odd place. Are they eating and just miss or otherwise foul hook themselves, or are they simply being snagged? Sure, some more testimonials from experienced jig fishermen would be helpful, but a video, or some other piece of hard evidence, sure would put the issue to rest.

    Yet here we are, both sides dug into their respective positions, and the battle being fought in the courts of Sarasota and public opinion -- no closer to knowing for sure what's really happening in the depths of the pass at sunrise.

    Meanwhile, we've done absolutely nothing about "saving the tarpon" from their biggest threat (IMO) -- long fight times and the sharks that take advantage of it every day of the week.
This discussion has been closed.