FWC to ban jig fishing in BGP

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Replies

  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    The exploitation of that resource for a select few? -- YES

    Those guys had guide businesses before the PTTS, and they will have that same business after it. -- NO

    It seems to me a whole lot of folks are exploiting the resource.... Recreationals, traditional live bait guides, bay boat live bait guides, fly-guides, jiggers, PTTS. You. Me. All of us. -- Not Accurate

    How does one make the distinction between "good" and "bad" exploitation? Gold chains? A wrapped boat? A Pinellas or Hillsborough tag on your truck? ... your left out Nascar style shirt with your name on it.. and Yes, those items collectively are indicative of exploitation
    troy.jpg


    Getting past the gaff/drag -- which made for good TV and bad stewardship -- I'm not sure you can. --- No, it is crappy TV. Honey BooBoo > PTTS


    The sharks certainly don't care, do they?


    ....
  • AlwaysAbuAlwaysAbu Posts: 476 Deckhand
    whitebacon wrote: »
    We've actually used computer enhancement software to determine that Joe Merjerkio lives with his mommy, and the big thieves Gary Ingman and his dead daddy stole $125 million from a Texas bank.
    whitebacon wrote: »
    Ya know my daddy made a living, but I'm a loser hanger-oner. Can't believe that obnoxious poster banged my daughter repeatedly.


    padded-cell.jpg
  • LGILGI Posts: 348 Officer
    I wonder if anyone has a forum hangover this morning?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,813 AG
    How does one make the distinction between "good" and "bad" exploitation? Gold chains? A wrapped boat? A Pinellas or Hillsborough tag on your truck? ... your left out Nascar style shirt with your name on it.. and Yes, those items collectively are indicative of exploitation

    None of those directly affect the tarpon one way or the other. They are simply ways for local tarpon fishermen to falsely differentiate between the "good" and "bad" guys.

    What's the difference between a local using 20lb test, fighting a fish for an hour, and having a hammerhead eat it....and a fish that ends up dead because it was gaffed/dragged/weighed by the PTTS? To the dead tarpon, absolutely nothing.

    The facts are each of us who participate in that fishery exploit it one way or another. Every single one of us. Some more than others, but we are all guilty of putting our enjoyment (or the enjoyment of our friends/clients) ahead of what's in the best interest of the tarpon. That's what we do as fishermen and guides.

    But, of course, it's always easier to point the finger at others while ignoring our own impact. Perhaps we should look in the mirror before doing so.

    Take care...Mike
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    whitebacon wrote: »
    Let's do this again. I waged a notorious battle with Gary C. Either Gary quit his job or I had him forced out.


    :Spittingcoffee
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • NOTyourSPOTNOTyourSPOT Posts: 232 Officer
    Good to see the bonefish events gone too.

    Joey no one cares what you have to say.. Your just posting one-liners and praying to start an argument.. Your posts are Weak, as are your thoughts. Go home your Drunk.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Joey no one cares what you have to say.. Your just posting one-liners and praying to start an argument.. Your posts are Weak, as are your thoughts. Go home your Drunk.


    Thank you.

    I see my strategy is working.....I have you on the right rigger.


    Too easy.
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    Colecchio likes to mock me. Ask him if I had a greater influence on the Water Management Districts, DEP, or the Tarpon rules. Tell him I'm not done, by a long shot, with any of those issues. He's a smart enough guy to realize I am telling the truth, and I'm not playing anymore.

    Watching this ridiculous diatribe for ten years plus convinced me I had to apply the principles and practices of my day job. Arguing with cheating children was fun for a while. Now the rubber hits the road. Just like I promised.
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Nice work Whitebacon.
  • LGILGI Posts: 348 Officer
    Nice work Whitebacon.


    I'm no fan of the PTTS, as anyone who has read my posts already knows. I do however find it hard to believe that anyone who has any real power behind the scenes would brag about that power on a public site. If they did I don't think they would get anything from me again. It's the people who say nothing that really work the system.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,813 AG
    What's more likely? A former BGFGA bait boy influencing the FWC and DEP, or that he's simply a legend in his own mind?

    The fact that Joey supports him should be clue enough. lol

    The power brokers I know don't frequent forums like this, they don't threaten others, they don't make libelous comments, nor to they toot their own horns publicly.

    Just as you suggested, they work behind the scenes.

    But who knows for sure.....
  • Capt. PantsCapt. Pants Posts: 667 Officer
    Don't tell anyone, but my Dad's in the mafia!!
  • LGILGI Posts: 348 Officer
    I bet you are right about all of that except for the part about frequenting forums like this. I bet most involved have read this forum, even if they don't post.

    But you're right, who knows for sure....
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »

    The fact that Joey supports him should be clue enough. lol.....



    You bring my name up on a lot of threads lately.

    Man crush?


    I look forward to saying hi when you are in there area.

    I think we are staying on LGI around the same time this year. :blowkiss


    We should have a beer or two and Ill convince you I am right.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,813 AG
    Don't flatter yourself. To be candid, I find your posts lowbrow and counterproductive and I enjoy taking the occasional shot at you just to give you a taste of your own medicine.

    That said, please do say hello. I don't mind talking tarpon or BGP to anyone.

    I don't think you stand a chance of convincing me of anything on these topics (or me convincing you either), but I'm certainly open to the discussion and possibility.

    Take care....Mike

    p.s. LGI, you're probably right, I should have said "post" instead of "frequent".
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    None of those directly affect the tarpon one way or the other. They are simply ways for local tarpon fishermen to falsely differentiate between the "good" and "bad" guys. Incorrect

    What's the difference between a local using 20lb test, fighting a fish for an hour, and having a hammerhead eat it....and a fish that ends up dead because it was gaffed/dragged/weighed by the PTTS? To the dead tarpon, absolutely nothing. WHAT? Of course there's a difference. Is there a fat sweaty guy following the boat around with a camera promoting a **** circus? Does the recreational angler gaff the fish and drag it a 1000 yards up current? Does the recreational publicize his antics to millions? I'm not a fan of monetizing the tarpon fishery in Florida.

    The facts are each of us who participate in that fishery exploit it one way or another. Every single one of us. Some more than others, but we are all guilty of putting our enjoyment (or the enjoyment of our friends/clients) ahead of what's in the best interest of the tarpon. That's what we do as fishermen and guides. My use of the fishery is not for monetary gain, or fame. When people's egos and personal greed affect the way I can fish, then I get a bit perturbed. The fact that they organize these @$$hats into a circus event is ridiculous. My actions do not spawn restrictive regulations. I just want to fish, drink beer and eat sammiches.

    But, of course, it's always easier to point the finger at others while ignoring our own impact. Perhaps we should look in the mirror before doing so. Thanks Mom!

    Take care...Mike

    .....
  • AlwaysAbuAlwaysAbu Posts: 476 Deckhand

    We should have a beer or two and Ill convince you I am right.

    A simple video of a tarpon minding his own business, just hanging out with his boys doing tarpon stuff in BGP, blindly swimming into a circle hooked jig with no desire to eat it, and getting snagged will be all that convinces anyone.

    I am already convinced you can drink beer, it's obvious from your posts. :rotflmao
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    AlwaysAbu wrote: »
    A simple video of a tarpon minding his own business, just hanging out with his boys doing tarpon stuff in BGP, blindly swimming into a circle hooked jig with no desire to eat it, and getting snagged will be all that convinces anyone.

    I am already convinced you can drink beer, it's obvious from your posts. :rotflmao

    The paint on your China made reels must be making you delusional.

    I never stated the Jig snags tarpon. I just get sick of the way those idiots take over the pass. If they leave and take the PTTS with them, I am good.
  • rosshavrosshav Posts: 47 Deckhand
    JB,

    Make sure you say hi to Tarponator....he will be the guy flying 10 poons to your none while you cry a river about not having access to the pass.
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    yes, It's totally random that I'm here, that I know the system, that I dictate the rules. It's also a freak of nature that the chief obstructionist never challenges me. While I like the free food stamps, and the general welfare, yes I don't really have any power......I'm just a really lucky guesser........................
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    Gary Colecchio, Gary Ingman, Joe Mercurio know who I am. This isn't the kiddie crew. This is the no-****-around-crew. I'm invested because I've spent my life there. Spending another million bucks to eradicate the jiggers is tip money.

    too bad we got it done.................just as I predicted
  • whitebaconwhitebacon Posts: 354 Officer
    It's a shame that the PTTS and Gary C cower when provoked, when challenged, when threatened. Please save all these threads, when I bury the PTTS, we can all celebrate.

    Colecchio will be a side-bar
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,813 AG
    None of those directly affect the tarpon one way or the other. They are simply ways for local tarpon fishermen to falsely differentiate between the "good" and "bad" guys. Incorrect

    Do you care to expound on your one word refutation, or would you prefer this to be a "no it isn't" and "yes it is" discussion? I would prefer the former, but the choice is yours.

    What's the difference between a local using 20lb test, fighting a fish for an hour, and having a hammerhead eat it....and a fish that ends up dead because it was gaffed/dragged/weighed by the PTTS? To the dead tarpon, absolutely nothing. WHAT? Of course there's a difference. Is there a fat sweaty guy following the boat around with a camera promoting a **** circus? Does the recreational angler gaff the fish and drag it a 1000 yards up current? Does the recreational publicize his antics to millions? I'm not a fan of monetizing the tarpon fishery in Florida.

    Please re-read my response and note the words "to the tarpon". The point being if you want to be a **** and make a TV show that results in a dead tarpon that's your right. Just like it's the right of the pasty New England executive to hire a local guide, use a fly rod without the requisite knowledge, and fight a fish for two hours and the fish goes belly up. Just like it's the right of a LGI resident to fish with 20lb mono and a light rod and fight a fish for an hour and get it eaten by sharks. TO THE TARPON (and to the fishery) there's absolutely no difference because in each case it was the angler (and his ego/enjoyment) that was put ahead of the fish's best interest and in each case the results TO THE TARPON were precisely the same.

    And so you know, I'm not a fan of monetizing the tarpon fishery either, but guides do it every day and twice on good tide days. Your boat manufacturer and tackle companies do it. The marinas and hotels do it. Florida Sportsman has been doing it for decades. That's the way the good old US of A works, for better or worse. Mecurio and Ingram just do it in a more direct and well publicized way, and the locals haven't taken kindly to it (as they often do).

    And we better be careful with all this talk of not monetizing things, or someone will accuse us of being socialists because we dare suggest that monetizing anything and everything isn't always best. lol
    The facts are each of us who participate in that fishery exploit it one way or another. Every single one of us. Some more than others, but we are all guilty of putting our enjoyment (or the enjoyment of our friends/clients) ahead of what's in the best interest of the tarpon. That's what we do as fishermen and guides. My use of the fishery is not for monetary gain, or fame. When people's egos and personal greed affect the way I can fish, then I get a bit perturbed. The fact that they organize these @$$hats into a circus event is ridiculous. My actions do not spawn restrictive regulations. I just want to fish, drink beer and eat sammiches.
    Just because you define personal enjoyment one way (fish/beer/sammiches) and others define it other ways (tournaments/monetary gain/ego), doesn't make your way better than others. Each of us has the right to define enjoyment in our own way, and I'm not so sure I can say your way (which aligns quite well with my own) is any better than anyone else. Please pardon the blunt nature of the following, but I'm not so arrogant to judge others using my own value system (ot at least I try not to :) ), particularly if my impact to the fishery is very much the same, varying only by degree, and within the law.

    Please don't get the wrong idea. I feel quite the same way you do -- I think what the PTTS does is wrongheaded and self-serving. I wish tournaments and the use of the kill tag to enable them were illegal. I wish I could just enjoy the fishery without the jackasses with jigs or the jackasses with clients or the jackasses who simply don't know better.

    If there's a difference between us, I think that I can see the other side of the issue through the lens of those on that side, and I'm not so quick to judge them for what I see as a motivation that is inherently no different from my own (i.e. enjoyment as I choose to define it) and with a result (i.e. dead tarpon) that's only different in degree.
    But, of course, it's always easier to point the finger at others while ignoring our own impact. Perhaps we should look in the mirror before doing so. Thanks Mom!

    You're welcome, son. :)

    Seriously, that last post may seem to be a cliche, but I think it truly cuts to the root of the emotion associated with this issue. As fishermen we all kill fish -- intentionally or unintentionally, for our personal enjoyment or for making a buck. However, for me to point at someone else and say they are bad for doing what I do every time I enjoy my chosen hobby, simply because they do the bad things a little more than I smacks of hypocrisy. As a man much wiser than I once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and OldHewes18Red, neither you nor I are sinless when it comes to killing tarpon -- we all sacrifice tarpon at the altar of enjoyment -- and I truly wonder if it isn't that underlying guilt that drives some to be as vocal as they are and point the finger anyplace but at themselves.

    Because in the end, we are all putting our enjoyment above that of the tarpon, and our only difference is in degree. Since it is human nature to always see ourselves as good, we focus on the minutiae in hopes of being able to point our psyche's finger at "that guy" as the source of the problem, when the truth of the matter is there's little difference in our behavior or the ultimate effect. This tarpon fishing debate is but one example of this recurring theme in human nature. If you are interested we can discuss others (for instance religion and politics are full of the same type of cognitive bias), but for now I've typed enough and don't wish to go father astray.

    Just some more food for thought, respectfully submitted, with thanks for your prior and future responses....Mike
  • OldHewes18RedOldHewes18Red Posts: 308 Deckhand
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Do you care to expound on your one word refutation, or would you prefer this to be a "no it isn't" and "yes it is" discussion? I would prefer the former, but the choice is yours.




    Please re-read my response and note the words "to the tarpon". The point being if you want to be a **** and make a TV show that results in a dead tarpon that's your right. Just like it's the right of the pasty New England executive to hire a local guide, use a fly rod without the requisite knowledge, and fight a fish for two hours and the fish goes belly up. Just like it's the right of a LGI resident to fish with 20lb mono and a light rod and fight a fish for an hour and get it eaten by sharks. TO THE TARPON (and to the fishery) there's absolutely no difference because in each case it was the angler (and his ego/enjoyment) that was put ahead of the fish's best interest and in each case the results TO THE TARPON were precisely the same.

    And so you know, I'm not a fan of monetizing the tarpon fishery either, but guides do it every day and twice on good tide days. Your boat manufacturer and tackle companies do it. The marinas and hotels do it. Florida Sportsman has been doing it for decades. That's the way the good old US of A works, for better or worse. Mecurio and Ingram just do it in a more direct and well publicized way, and the locals haven't taken kindly to it (as they often do).

    And we better be careful with all this talk of not monetizing things, or someone will accuse us of being socialists because we dare suggest that monetizing anything and everything isn't always best. lol


    Just because you define personal enjoyment one way (fish/beer/sammiches) and others define it other ways (tournaments/monetary gain/ego), doesn't make your way better than others. Each of us has the right to define enjoyment in our own way, and I'm not so sure I can say your way (which aligns quite well with my own) is any better than anyone else. Please pardon the blunt nature of the following, but I'm not so arrogant to judge others using my own value system (ot at least I try not to :) ), particularly if my impact to the fishery is very much the same, varying only by degree, and within the law.

    Please don't get the wrong idea. I feel quite the same way you do -- I think what the PTTS does is wrongheaded and self-serving. I wish tournaments and the use of the kill tag to enable them were illegal. I wish I could just enjoy the fishery without the jackasses with jigs or the jackasses with clients or the jackasses who simply don't know better.

    If there's a difference between us, I think that I can see the other side of the issue through the lens of those on that side, and I'm not so quick to judge them for what I see as a motivation that is inherently no different from my own (i.e. enjoyment as I choose to define it) and with a result (i.e. dead tarpon) that's only different in degree.



    You're welcome, son. :)

    Seriously, that last post may seem to be a cliche, but I think it truly cuts to the root of the emotion associated with this issue. As fishermen we all kill fish -- intentionally or unintentionally, for our personal enjoyment or for making a buck. However, for me to point at someone else and say they are bad for doing what I do every time I enjoy my chosen hobby, simply because they do the bad things a little more than I smacks of hypocrisy. As a man much wiser than I once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and OldHewes18Red, neither you nor I are sinless when it comes to killing tarpon -- we all sacrifice tarpon at the altar of enjoyment -- and I truly wonder if it isn't that underlying guilt that drives some to be as vocal as they are and point the finger anyplace but at themselves.

    Because in the end, we are all putting our enjoyment above that of the tarpon, and our only difference is in degree. Since it is human nature to always see ourselves as good, we focus on the minutiae in hopes of being able to point our psyche's finger at "that guy" as the source of the problem, when the truth of the matter is there's little difference in our behavior or the ultimate effect. This tarpon fishing debate is but one example of this recurring theme in human nature. If you are interested we can discuss others (for instance religion and politics are full of the same type of cognitive bias), but for now I've typed enough and don't wish to go father astray.

    Just some more food for thought, respectfully submitted, with thanks for your prior and future responses....Mike



    Good points..... I have some great analogies I would like to drop to equate the PTTS to other events, but the use of sodomy would not conform with the forum rules of use.



    FACT: The world we live in today is separated into two distinct groups. The two groups are a separate conversation and topic all together, however, one of these groups is determined to mandate how and what we do in this country.


    My point is, when the actions of a small group (jiggers and PTTS participants) start to negatively affect the rights of a large group (recreational fisherman on a whole), I take offense to it. I could care less if you and Collecckiio went down to BGP and killed a tarpon once a week. However, televise it, monetize it and jam it down the throats of the eco nuts..... not so good.

    Equate it to clubbing baby seals. In reality, no one would really give two craps about seal fur if they didn't have the visual of some guy working for a fur company, clubbing baby seals with a baseball bat. The PTTS is ammunition.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 AG
    FACT: Both 'sides' could be equally accused. BGFGA mandated their 'rules' 40 years ago, and has tried to enforce it through intimidating 'outsiders' for 40 years as if they owned it.

    That is all this conflict is and all it will ever be.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    FACT: Both 'sides' could be equally accused. BGFGA mandated their 'rules' 40 years ago, and has tried to enforce it through intimidating 'outsiders' for 40 years as if they owned it.

    That is all this conflict is and all it will ever be.

    I thought you said there are no "rules" in BGP????
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    rosshav wrote: »
    JB,

    Make sure you say hi to Tarponator....he will be the guy flying 10 poons to your none while you cry a river about not having access to the pass.



    Yeah. I don't catch tarpon.

    I just look good doing it. LMAO.

    If Tarponator and I are on the same stretch of beach, he won't be cacthing any either :rotflmao
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,813 AG
    Good points..... I have some great analogies I would like to drop to equate the PTTS to other events, but the use of sodomy would not conform with the forum rules of use.



    FACT: The world we live in today is separated into two distinct groups. The two groups are a separate conversation and topic all together, however, one of these groups is determined to mandate how and what we do in this country.


    My point is, when the actions of a small group (jiggers and PTTS participants) start to negatively affect the rights of a large group (recreational fisherman on a whole), I take offense to it. I could care less if you and Collecckiio went down to BGP and killed a tarpon once a week. However, televise it, monetize it and jam it down the throats of the eco nuts..... not so good.

    Equate it to clubbing baby seals. In reality, no one would really give two craps about seal fur if they didn't have the visual of some guy working for a fur company, clubbing baby seals with a baseball bat. The PTTS is ammunition.

    Thanks for acknowledging the points I was trying to make. I appreciate it.

    I find myself agreeing with much of what you wrote above.

    Personally, and to use your analogy, I just can't past the fact that regardless if the baby seal is killed by club or by a gun or by painless drug, the baby seal is still dead.

    Admittedly, one method might be more accepted and humane than another, but in the end we're all seal-killers, and I think we should consider that a bit more than we are.

    To come back to the issue at hand, I see the PTTS doing all the giving in this equation with absolutely nothing given by the other side. The PTTS, if we take their comments at face value, have changed their ways, and I hope they will continue to do so in hopes of minimize the impact to the fishery we all love (and, frankly, I'm anything but convinced that banning the jig will have any impact on the tarpon, but perhaps we shall see). I know that I do that personally, and it was not always so. I can remember the first tarpon I ever caught on Phil Dugger's boat almost two decades ago. I remember fighting that fish for an hour and a half, and I wonder if she made it. Since then, I've learned a lot about the tarpon, the fishery, and how to best release a tarpon such that it doesn't give up its life in my pursuit of happiness. I hope the readers of this thread have at least given some thought to our own actions and recognize that if all of us tried to do our best and learn from our past mistakes, that the pass will be a better place for the tarpon and the fishermen that chase them for the next hundred years -- because, in the end, our own actions are the only thing we can truly control.

    Take care....Mike
  • Joey ButtonsJoey Buttons Posts: 11,849 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »
    I can remember the first tarpon I ever caught on Phil Dugger's boat almost two decades ago.



    Now I get it.

    You are fairly new to this.

    Now it all makes sense.
  • beargonefishinbeargonefishin Posts: 64 Deckhand
    FACT: Both 'sides' could be equally accused. BGFGA mandated their 'rules' 40 years ago, and has tried to enforce it through intimidating 'outsiders' for 40 years as if they owned it.

    That is all this conflict is and all it will ever be.



    Is that why Save the Tarpon has 20,000 people on their side, and counting?

    Are the BGFGA guides, which equal around 25 Captains sitting around all day creating internet aliases to sign their petition, and join and like the STT facebook page?

    People have had enough, and the masses are now having their voice heard, and they are siding with sportsmanship, etiquette, and logic.

    This isn't just a weekly article in the Boca Beacon anymore. Social Media has finally provided an outlet that has informed EVERYBODY of the charade put on by the jiggers. The gimmick, of having an honest client that just wants to catch a silver king, unknowingly snag a tarpon, is out of the bag. And their own fellow jiggers, and past PTTS participants played a MAJOR role in letting it out.

    Everyone, not just the BGFGA, has had enough of that circus rodeo....and their days are numbered.....finally.
This discussion has been closed.