HELP INDIAN RIVER FISH LIFE

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  1. #1
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    HELP INDIAN RIVER FISH LIFE

    If you're interested in Indian Rvier/Mosquito Lagoon fishing (and we think most of you are), take a few minutes to support the city of Rockledge's excess-fertilizer ordinance which is to be voted on Wednesday, Feb. 6.

    Lots of cities are taking action against polluting levels of phosphorous/nitrogen even though the state legislature is deep in the pockets of the fertilizer industry. Irresponsible over-fertilizing has been deadly to waters in countless areas. The "eutrophication" triggers algae blooms, fish kills and wipes out all sorts of aquatic and marine life.

    Here's a message from Indian River Keeper Marty Baum:


    Hello all, Marty here, your Indian Riverkeeper,

    We need help.

    Just got a heads up from Jim Moir and Chris Costello that Rockledge is going to vote on an urban fertilizer ordinance on Wednesday the 6th of February. I know this is last minute, I did not know until tonight either. Sooo, please help as you can, Chris will be forwarding things as will others so please check in with any thoughts or ideas as to how we can have a presence on such short notice. I cannot be there, I have a prior commitment that cannot be broken.

    We need a friendly Commissioner, and a list of questions for them to consider using on both sides of the issue. If you can give me a name quickly, I could try to get an appointment, run up and speak to them personally. Or perhaps one of you know one personally, and could help.

    Hitch, any ideas here? Could you post your position paper again for everyone to read please.

    The creation of a question list was on "my" list and I had intended to pose this to some scientists and others for suggestions. There are some very smart folks on our lists and I think collectively we could generate a list of "suggested" questions that could cut to the quick and seek Truth, Justice and the Indian River Way.

    There will be some new folks on this list so those who have information and comments that may help bring them up to speed so they may discover a place that allows them to help too please post it up for perusal.

    Please get this out on your Facebook pages, and show support between us.

    http://www.facebook.com/FloridaSlimeCrimes

    http://www.facebook.com/marty.baum.3 me

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Indian...1933016?ref=hl Indian Riverkeeper


    More to come, folks to call, letters to write. Please help as you can.

    Thanks,
    Marty

  2. #2
    Moderator Gary S. Colecchio's Avatar
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    There should be no concern in passing local ordinances limiting fertilizers. Its a no brained and that should be the extent of the sales pitch.

    That said, there is no need to invent a legislative conspiracy by "Big Phosphate" to pollute Florida.

    The emotional pleas by self- proclaimed Loraxi does more to put off those who would be more than willing to advance these local initiatives based on science.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

  3. #3
    Senior Member Indian Riverkeeper's Avatar
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    I wish it were as easy as you think Gary. Somehow we missed you at the Brevard County meeting December 10th when their Commission shot us down 4-1. Perhaps had you been there, then you might have seen and understood better the frustration after more than 30 advocates, including the foremost scientists to have ever studied our collapsing lagoons testified to no avail. If the loss of nearly half of all seagrass meadows in the northern lagoons in two years because of a nutrient driven algae "superbloom" is not enough wakeup call for you understand the need for action, then I guess nothing will. Mostly, I really don't understand why you would sit here and deride and insult those working hard to save the lagoon for no good reason.

  4. #4
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    Thanks Karl.
    "A 'real' fisherman is one who thinks like I do. There are more of us around than you might suspect."
    -John Gierach

  5. #5
    Moderator Gary S. Colecchio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Riverkeeper View Post
    I wish it were as easy as you think Gary. Somehow we missed you at the Brevard County meeting December 10th when their Commission shot us down 4-1. Perhaps had you been there, then you might have seen and understood better the frustration after more than 30 advocates, including the foremost scientists to have ever studied our collapsing lagoons testified to no avail. If the loss of nearly half of all seagrass meadows in the northern lagoons in two years because of a nutrient driven algae "superbloom" is not enough wakeup call for you understand the need for action, then I guess nothing will. Mostly, I really don't understand why you would sit here and deride and insult those working hard to save the lagoon for no good reason.
    "Save the lagoon". Estuarine systems are very resilient and self -correcting. As we have seen in Pine Island sound,San Carlos , Sanibel, Charlotte Harbor and Estero Bay despite similar anguished cries of foreboding doom in the middle part of the last decade.

    I understand water quality and storm water very well enough to know that algae blooms are not initiated by the occasional use of landscape fertilizer. I also know that it's reduction or even elimination will not eliminate them. Compared to legacy phosphorus and nitrates sequestered in soils, natural processes, and even concentrations above impaired standards in potable water systems, and wastewater system effluent. eliminating decorative landscaping fertilizers plays more of a feel good role than an effective one.

    Until those sources are addressed and corrected, residential actions will have no significance in efficacy . We can see examples of these successes in the actions of the Tampa Bay consortiums efforts in the rehabilitation of The Tampa Bay Estuary over the past 20 years.

    I had the experience of studying the Indian River in the late 70s at school and long prior to NPDES and storm water BMP implementation. It wasn't dead then and it is orders of magnitude in better shape now. It is not going to "die" despite your shouting that it will.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

  6. #6
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    Concerned folks might read the hard science about deadly eutrophication via the search engines. Both globally and locally it's a monster problem.

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=eutroph...c=8-5&sp=1&sk=

  7. #7
    Senior Member ACME Ventures Fishing's Avatar
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    A little common sense reasoning helps get a clearer picture of the conditions today (mans impact) to that of years past. Living in the Titusville area, and fishing in the
    IRl and ML, I have seen the remarkable improvements over the years since moving to the area in 1974. I remember the tall tales of "Decaying Seaweed" being the
    blame for the odor along the shores of Titusville, that mysteriously stopped when the City was ordered to stop dumping sewage into the river. I remember the days
    when the Citrus industry occupied the waterfront and runoff area's were all kinds of psycodelic colors due to pesticide and fertilizer runnoff, but now they are transformed
    into housing developments or sit mostly overgrown and long forgotten. I remember the days before water restrictions, when sprinklers were always running to allow the fertilizers
    to keep the green lush lawn in always pristine condition, and yes the curbs were virtual rivers themselves of runoff. I remember those days, but it has been a long time since
    that era, and things are much different now....for the good. The water temps in the Lagoons vary greatly with the seasons, and with predictability, the algae blooms also. A couple
    years ago, we had a cold winter (remember all the Turtle rescues?), but this past winter and this one the temps have stayed up. This has proven the bigger factor on water
    quality in the Lagoon system since the dramatic changes that have occured over the past 2 decades to create the great ecosystem we have today. The Fish stocks are a telling
    story themselves. Sure, restricting commercial harvest of Redfish, and Gillnet bans have allowed a great comeback....but this would not have occured in poor water quality.

    While more can always be considered to improve our esturine area's and waterways, lets not forget how much better it is now than only 20 years ago. Some regions may
    be more problematic than others, but speaking for the region I live and fish, I am glad to see it as quite healthy and vibrant and with the abundant fish populations we see,
    the fish seem to agree. The enviromental extremist paint a Gloom and Doom scenario to elicit emotional responses and garner support for their cause, but often fail to
    paint a complete and accurate picture of the whole situation. Much like the story we heard a few years ago about Red Snapper, that if we don't "Act Now", we may not have any
    left for future generations....well we know how that story went don't we??? We all can do more to continually improve our relationship with our enviroment, but lets not forget
    to stand back and look at the big picture of how far we have already come, and how much better it is.

  8. #8
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    You make some good points, Acme, but the science exposing the consequences of eutrophication is mighty solid, I'd say.

    The bizarre behavior with questionable science about red snapper hardly resembles the P/N situation.

    Don't you get the reports of dying seagrasses and relative shortages of marine species in the ML?
    Last edited by FS Karl Snapper; 02-02-2013 at 09:56 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ACME Ventures Fishing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FS Karl Snapper View Post
    You make some good points, Acme, but the science exposing the consequences of eutrophication is mighty solid, I'd say.

    The bizarre behavior with questionable science about red snapper hardly resembles the P/N situation.

    Don't you get the reports of dying seagrasses and relative shortages of marine species in the ML?
    Actually the fish populations in the ML and IRL are quite healthy, along with Black Drum Trout, etc. I'm sure world wide, particulary developing
    countries, nutrient saturated waters are a real problem. In Florida however, as a whole, the condition now is many times better than a decade or
    two ago. The many factors listed before along with multi-faceted regulatory changes to industries such as the citrus and sugar, have cleaned up
    many problems. Consider the cleaner water from years of 4-cycle and clean running 2-strokes in our waters. If our waters were not healthy, they
    would not be supporting the abundance we see now.

    This does not mean that things could not be even better, but creating a "Gloom and Doom" scenario to sell the idea if exactly what groups like
    Pew did with the ARS. We heard things like 'If we don't ack now...there will be none left for future generations'. And how exactly did that turn out?
    The Florida water quality is MUCH better than it was in previous years, so failing to acknowledge this in seeking even better conditions sounds much
    like the disengenuous actions by extreme special interets groups seeking their agenda at all cost, even the truth.

    The Abundance we see tells us a lot about the water quality we have. The reports I hear as well as my own experiances living, working and fishing
    here is more telling than any internet posting.

  10. #10
    Moderator Gary S. Colecchio's Avatar
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    Eutrophication is a natural process common to estuarine systems , Karl. There is nothing particularly deadly about it.

    Algal blooms require certain conditions of nutrient concentrations , salinity / temperature and flow. Nutrient loading from residental fertilizers is negligible as a source because of its up take in plants and its only being available by stormwater conveyance, which again is most significant in the "first flush" of major events.

    The bag of Scotty's Weed 'n Feed in the carport isn't going to cause the death of anything.

    What is considerably more important for sustained loading are municipal and industrial wastwater systems effluent. These are well regulated by the Clean Water Act though local delegation to the DEP and where corrective efforts should be made first.
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

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