Red Snapper- Quota, Bag limit, and Regional Management

[CaptBobBryant]

Remember folks.....if you catch it on artificial structure....it ain't non of NMFS' damn business ehat you caught.

[testerman28]

lets try this: put a limit on the snappers, a punch card like they used to do with salmon would do just fine.. TAKE YOUR OFFICERS out and teach them what fish are instead of them handing out tickets for driving in a state park Dania Beach John Loyd State Park (if you need a freakin' location) .. where are the marine patrol boats at by the way? did the state buy any new ones? do they just sit in a office and think it will all be good at a meeting? maybe you can train and find ways to put it back like it was in the old days??? we used to see a grey 25' mako every couple miles up and down the coast but no more they suck all the money coming in down a long black hole.. people will respect you IF you respect them! the BS way that all you people are handling this is sad! we buy a license, registration and a bunch of us respect what we got and train the people we fish with to follow limits and we do this every year to fish. our state and government agencies take more interest from a guy or girl sitting in a dark room punching numbers for profit or management then actually doing the job! the meetings and discussions are a joke. the officers up and down our coasts are not even trained at doing the job at hand! you cats need to figure this out artificial reef or natural bottom .. who says they don't swim from one to another they take trips you know.. use the time, knowledge and start managing this fishery correctly or give the job to someone who can. I have not put a red snapper on a fish cutting table myself in 6 years but we catch, vent and release them.. as fishermen we watch ethanol be introduced into our fuel systems, we watch as the state wastes our money and they screw up the fisheries on meetings and lobbyist ideas.. do your job and don't follow the same path as a politician for once.. explaining things in a 3rd or 5th grade level to dumb people with only their own interest is going to bite you and all of us in the ***!

[Mackeral Snatcher]

Excellent rant!!

[Eggsuckindog]

Trust me the Feds bought the FWC a couple new offshore boats when they started regualating grouper in 2004, as they have no enforcement, a little bait for them too. They are out in force around season openings and trying to run the gauntlet to get to the ramp is virtually impossible or being checked 25 miles offshore, which never ever happened before.
You can see them all on display at Gasparilla if you chose, they all show up, including Marion Cty, Volusia, Manatee, Sarasota, Charlotte, Oseola, Pinellas, Hills, even the USF cops have a boat? Like a real nice boat show as they all are the best and all have trips or quads and then the big offshore FWC boats. If you put in at Gandy the lot over there will still be full of various sizes.

[Tom Hilton]

I attended the regional management scoping meeting last night in Texas City and of course, it was mostly populated with CFA supporters, Jeff Barger (who is he with now - Ocean Conservancy or EDF?), and a few older guys that I did not recognize.

I believe regionalization is Roy's answer to implementing catch shares in the recreational fishery. Pay attention to some of the input questions - should private anglers and cfh anglers be managed differently? AM's must developed for each region - should there be payback provisions if they exceed their quota? Etc. etc.

I believe the Plan is to provide the opportunity for the different regions to implement catch shares if they desire - divide and conquer by carving up the Gulf and implementing them in regions most populated by pro-catch share captains. Once catch shares are implemented in 1 region, the NMFS will continue to punish the other regions until they say Uncle!

In one respect, we are ALREADY managed regionally; the Gulf Council manages the Gulf REGION, the South Atlantic, Mid Atlantic and NEFMC all manage their own REGIONS. If the Gulf region exceeds its quota, it doesn't affect the other regions, yet in THIS plan, if one region exceeds its quota, ALL of the other regions are affected. This is from the regional management guide; " Under a regional management system, recreational red snapper fishing would close in the entire Gulf when the quota is met, regardless of which regions have harvested their allocation." Just another tool to put the squeeze on us.

I could actually support a regionalization plan if each region was indeed insulated from the actions of other regions, and more importantly, insulated from federal meddling and control. If each region was managed wholly by the state fisheries managers, who performed the assessments for their region, set their quota for that region, set their bag limits/seasons for their region, determined their desired allocation % between recreational/commercial fishing in their region, and developed their own accountability measures for that region - they could still report to the Gulf Council so that the Gulf Council ensures that the overall mandates to protect the fish are met.

Unfortunately, that's not what we have here.

In addition, this regionalization issue is really just a distraction from the REAL issue at hand - the total corruption of the biomass data that has reduced our access to a mere fraction of what it should be right now, today. They are wanting us to divvy up the crumbs when in reality, according to Dr. Shipp, we should be enjoying a much larger pie - fishing for 6 or even 8 months and (quote) "not even put a dent in the red snapper population". THAT is what we should be fighting for at this time - not dividing the Gulf or reducing our bag limits to 0.5 fish.

The large pecan pie in the enclosed graphic represents the enormous biomass of fish that actually exists in the Gulf that rightfully and legally belong to ALL of us, and that is being denied to us. The smaller pecan tart, cut into 5 unequal sections, represents what the NMFS wants us to believe to be the size of the biomass and for us to accept the meager crumbs they are offering.

I say no way Roy. It will be quite interesting to see the results of this "benchmark" assessment or to see if is longer a "benchmark" but indeed modified to lesser standard as I have heard will happen.

The other bit of corruption here by the feds is the refusal to account for the number of private rec offshore anglers in a meaningful, accountable fashion. This allows them to over-estimate effort and under-estimate biomass, creating a crisis where none exists, and attempting to justify the implementation of catch shares in the recreational sector.

The answer is an honest stock assessment that counts all of the fish around artificial reefs and oil platforms, and for our 6 month red snapper season to be reinstated immediately. We do have the preeminent red snapper scientist in the Gulf saying that is the answer, and I believe him.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

[testerman28]

we on the east coast pay for a lobster stamp a snook stamp and a HMS permit to catch swords and tuna.. so why not get a stamp / punch card for red snapper? the charter / head boats can get a 'lot' of stamps and have the boat responsible for the snappers taken? why is it so hard to figure this out ? commercial guys should have a 'catch share' that in case of breakdowns and such could be bought, sold or bartered ...the Canadians can do it so can we.. a commercial boat has landings permits and has to sell their fish and charters would do great as long as they had their share for the people that way you would not have to go in bad weather.. wether the feds or state would handle the monies right would be the end question..

[Eggsuckindog]

Tom your correct that most areas of the gulf other than the Fla panhandle and vincinity have such a long run to even sniff an RS their effort can not be close to the same or their take.

As I have stated on Karls thread where are the millions of pounds of bycatch from the shrimpers we heard about for 30 yrs.

[okie]

this is stealing public fish/game. ibuy anonres liesnes yearly 47.00 what the heck is goging on down there. not good;

[Tom Hilton]

Tom your correct that most areas of the gulf other than the Fla panhandle and vincinity have such a long run to even sniff an RS their effort can not be close to the same or their take.

As I have stated on Karls thread where are the millions of pounds of bycatch from the shrimpers we heard about for 30 yrs.

Exactly. I remember the NMFS mantra at the scoping meetings back in the mid-2000's - quote: "We could totally shut down both the recreational and commercial red snapper fisheries, and if we don't do something about the shrimper bycatch, the red snapper biomass would still never recover". Or, how about this well-known sound bite from a large conservation.org; "80% of every year class of red snapper is killed due to shrimper bycatch..." Impossible.

We were promised, when they tied the recreational red snapper quota to the shrimper bycatch issue thus resulting in less fishing days, that when they were successful in reducing the associated juvenile red snapper mortality from shrimper bycatch, that we recreational fishermen would be rewarded with them returning us our fishing days.

They conveniently "forgot" that promise once shrimper bycatch was reduced by the mandated amount. Once season days or bag limit numbers are taken away, they NEVER are given back. That's why there should be NO REDUCTION in the red snapper daily bag limit.

Just another link in the chain of outright lies by our federal fisheries managers over the last decade or so. They want accountability from us? As with anything, they should practice what they preach BEFORE they mandate that from anyone.

Capt. Thomas J. Hilton