To the 4 guys in the 17' Key West:

[Panhandler80]

19', huh? What kind? I'd be willing to bet that it's a good bit larger than a 17' Key West.

And like I said, a LOT of good fishermen out there in small boats and for a lot of different reasons. Some don't want the hassle associate with keeping up a larger boat, some can't justify the extra expense of a larger boat, some can't afford a larger boat, etc.

I'll stand by original stateent... 4 people offshore in a 17 Key West screams rank amateaur, ESPECIALLY when you consider the context under which this particular group of 4 in a 17' Key West... remember? The boat that ran up on the original poster's spot.

Oh, and as far as me not liking to fish more than 6 people on a boat thre times the size of a 17' Key West... you might want to consider fishable space, not just LOA. This also goes hand in hand that I bet your 19 is probably considerably larger than the 17 foot rank amateurs that pulled up on the oringal poster. The smaller the boat, the greater the percent increase in lenght is for each additional foot. We all know that the difference between a 19 and a 17 is much greater than a 46 and a 44.

WHen I said three times the size for me to be comfortable off shore with 6 anglers I in now way meant that I needed a 51 foot boat. I was thinking about the 34 that I do not own myself, but fish on a lot. 5-6 people in the cockpit is all it handles comforably and then there's one behind the wheel. 34' x 13' give a VERY rough estimate of a footrpring (if the boat was square of course) of 442sq ft. A 17' center with a beam of let's say 7 feet, that's 119 ft^2.

I just said I'd like to have no more than 6 people on a boat roughly 3 times the size of a 17 foot KW. I pulled 3X out of my butt. However, if you divide 442 by 119, you get 3.7.

Maybe I should have said that I don't like to fish more than 6 or s on a boat 3.7 times a 17 ft KW.

I'd say most 19 foot boats, ESPECIALLY OLDER ONES that were flatter in the back with upright hul sides and pig-like bows, have probably 30% more useful space than a new 17 key west. At no point was I doggin' you. I remember man a day 20-25 miles off in dad's 19.5 foot 1982 AMF Robalo with two sets of dive gear, two coolers and 4 people. Boat rode like hell, but that boat (and I suspect the 19' you refered to earlier) are entirely different animals that a 17 FOOT KEY WEST WITH 4 PEOPLE ON IT THAT LIKES TO RUN UP ON A BOAT ALREADY FISHING.

Rank Amateurs!

[Ron-da-vu]

My comments may really diss some people off, but it needs to be said. Just waht is a "local"? Someone that was born and raised in PC? Someone that lives full time in PC? how long do you need to live in PC to be a "local"? Most everybody fishes federal waters for snapper and grouper. Federal? Last time I checked, I paid my share of federal taxes. {By the way I was born and raised up out on the beach in Panama City.} It's just plain silly to think that someone that lives in PC currently should have any different rights than a greenhorn tourist.

I take some offense in someone that thinks a small boat should also have less rights. I run a 17' Boston Whaler. I do so by choice. It's easier to pull on my trips to the panhandle. Easier to load, {I fish by myself a lot}. I view it as being much safer than a lot of boats out there twice it's size.

As for sinking money into structure, you knew you were doing it on public waters. {Kinda like the man that saved the rattlesnakes life and then it bit him?} No one will blame you for taking evasive action as Sting recommends. Take physical action and it could be you that gets the trouble. If you should either accidently or on purpose hurt someone because they were on your "spot", it would mean certain jail time. is it worth it to you? People in jail can't fish at all last time I checked. At the very least captains have lost their license over such.

Instead of fighting among oursleves, I think we all should turn our attention to NOAA, The Gulf councel, and related organizations, they are trying to take away ALL of your fishing. All that money spent, all the 24" snappers, grouper, and such will just swim around waiting to be caught by the handful of favored commercial fishermen.

Anyway that's my rant. I believe in the above points of view. I ain't zactly a greenhorn tourist either. Prolly fished panhandle waters far more than most posters here. Flaring tempers usually don't solve much. As for me, if you see my little Whaler out there, come on over and jaw a spell. Fish if ya wanna. Two 24" fish ain't worth me getting upset over.

[Panhandler80]

No temper flaring here.

Was just saying that that I bet StingRay's old 19 foot boat was way bigger of a boat than the new 17 ft KW.

And yes, 4 people on a new KW who pull right up on another guy (tourist or not... no difference) is more than likely a new fisherman. THIS is why I said that in his DEFENSE, he just associated those numbers with a spot where he'd caught fish before. Had he known it was two small pieces of structure, he might have let the original poster sit on it. That's all. We're kind of in agreement here. I was saying cut the guy some slack... clearly he didn't know what he was doing out there, the whole 4 people in a 17' KW.

As to you and your 17' whaler.... AGAIN, whole different ball game. Again, look at USABLE space, that old 17 whaler has as much room as most 19s out there. To this day, I use a 3' x 3' x 3' box that a gentleman and his wife used to commercial snappers with out of Indian Pass. So I reliaze smal boats can do a lot.

However, 4 guys in a 17' KW is WAY WAY different that you (by your own words here...) SOLO in a 17' whaler, or Sting Ray in his 19 ft boat.

Has nothing to do with local vs non-local. Four adult men off shore in a 17 ft KW that pull up on another boat that's already fishing... THOSE GUYS ARE RANK AMATUERS. Plain as that.

Later

[Popeye]

Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

[Whalercrazy]

Get over it redfish. Next time fly a flag saying I paid for this spot. Usually if there are two or more boats anchored on a mark I was going to fish I will move on to another. Just don't like to crowd folks, if you are drifting the mark, I am staying. Everyone gere appreciates your financial generosity by adding habitat, but you don't own it. But honestly, you need to get over it

[Ron-da-vu]

Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

Don't know about everyone else, but your comments not appreciated by me. You purposely trying to start an argument? Lets talk constructive fishin.

[Sea-Lie'n]

jeesh

[kanaka]

Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

******bag

[Popeye]

Get over it redfish. Next time fly a flag saying I paid for this spot. Usually if there are two or more boats anchored on a mark I was going to fish I will move on to another. Just don't like to crowd folks, if you are drifting the mark, I am staying. Everyone gere appreciates your financial generosity by adding habitat, but you don't own it. But honestly, you need to get over it

I dont understand why Im a scumbag. I dident create a post to Whine about somthing WE have no control over. Why dident you handle the situation out there? Why whine about it here? Little to late. WE ALL have an interst in these seas, WE dont own any particular "spot" no matter what youve been told. Its just one more fact of life. There are more hobbies that one could pursue that are more "gentle" for ones concept of "fair".

[Popeye]

******bag

Watch it man.