Stand Your Ground Law

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  1. #1
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    Stand Your Ground Law

    OK, so when this originally passed I thought it was a good idea, it may still be but it appears it is a little vague.

    Looks like in the Trayvon case, he was walking down the street, was approached by Zimm who had no legal authority to stop anyone and Tray was not legally obligated to talk to him. At some point Tray ran and we know for a fact Zimm pursued him and he was told not to. This is where it becomes vague as only 2 people know what really happened but one of them is dead. What I have an issue with is Tray was pursued, and apparantly was on the phone, and at one point decided to stop running. A scuffle ensued and he was killed. But if Zimm pursued him, at what point does Tray or anyone have the right to end the pursuit and confront the pursuee and "stand their ground"? And if that confrontion leads to a phsyical issue, does the person who was pursuing have the right to kill the guy now beating his but? Zimm was bigger but looks like Tray turned the tables.
    I mean what kind of can of worms does that open. Say someone larger is instigating a fight in a bar, the person he is messing with walks away and the he is followed. Outside the guy leaving decides he is not going to back down anymore and a scuffle ensues. Turns out the smaller guy can kik some arse and he begins to whoop on the other guy. Does the other guy have the right to shoot him becasue the tables were turned. Even if he is getting his aZZ kicked?
    If I get into a road rage issue and I am at a light with no cars in fornt of me and the guy behind me punches my window out and I can just hit the gas and drive away I can now kill him and end his life? That's the society we want? Really? Does life have that little value anymore? Maybe the guy that lost it has a family and just snapped for a sec.

    I don't know, I'm on the fence. Please do not list examples wher its cut and dry trying to save your life, I'm Ok with those. Just seems like the law as it stands is too vague...

  2. #2
    Senior Member RedBaron's Avatar
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    IMHO.....the law has to be vague as it has to be interpretted to cover all scenarios. Laws cannot be so rigid that it is always clearly cut and dry.

    What is extremely vague.....are the facts of this case and how the media has chosen this case to be the sensationalized flavor of the month. As you said, only two really know all the facts.....one is dead. But there are probably others that do have some additional facts that can be pieced together to make an application of the law as it is written. What the media is pushing out to us is clearly not all factual. The whole issue of one guy being bigger than the other.....what about when one guy is younger and more athletic than the other? We really do not even know how much bigger Zimm is than Trayvon. Hopefully something will happen soon so the media can move to their next hot topic.....it is crazy but maybe we should be hoping for the tsunami to hit Asia so this story can slide down their priority list.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Big Battery's Avatar
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    The Trayvon case is not an indictment against concealed carry nor the SYG laws. To make is such is a knee-jerk reaction and is as idiotic as suggesting that we limit free speech because of the neo-Nazis or Black Panthers.
    "....once the glitches get worked out." ~gunby31

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mister-Jr's Avatar
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    No lawyer here, but if a armed person shots and kills and unarmed person, the shooter better have an iron clad reason why.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister-Jr View Post
    Red
    No lawyer here, but if a armed person shots and kills and unarmed person, the shooter better have an iron clad reason why.
    This...

    To Lucky- what I've read about the tapes with 911. If you listen and read the transcripts he does leave his truck and start to follow. 911 tells him not to, in which he seems to comply. You can hear the heavy breathing from running stop and he starts answering questions about who he is and where he is at. Something you wouldn't do if you were chasing someone. Unfortunately the call ends and we don't know what happens from that point and should rely on the witnesses that were at the scene, which to my knowledge their statements have not been made public.

    You have no proof he ran him down and killed him in cold blood and I have no proof he didn't. Why not wait for the witness reports and the police findings before you state something as fact that may or may not be true??

  6. #6
    Senior Member RedBaron's Avatar
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    If ever I am physically attacked....I doubt I will survey the person to see if they are armed before I do what I see necessary to survive.

    If ever I physically attack someone.....I won't feel victimized if the person I attacked is better prepared for the confrontation.

    The laws should be there to protect the person being attacked.
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  7. #7
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    Harvard Studies have proved right wrong or indifferent people stereotype blacks apart from whites and hispanics. Those wearing sweatshirts that cover the face
    are more suspect than the rest..

  8. #8
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    Using the Zimmerman case as you did for example, assume that Zimmerman was following Martin and confronted him. Once Martin had Zimmerman on the ground and no longer a threat of physical harm to him, the threat to Martin ended and his right to self defense ended. If he continued to beat Zimmerman in an attempt to kill him or do him great bodily harm out of anger rather than self defense, then Zimmerman had a right to protect his life. Both were lawfully allowed to be where they were.

    In the case of a bar fight. If the guy is picking a fight with you and you stop the threat, you are legal. If you continue to try and kill the guy after you have stopped the threat, then deadly force can be used to stop you.

    The law does not give you the right to kill someone because you are pissed at the other guy.

    Here is one statute:

    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

    If Zimmerman was yelling for help and on the bottom as witnesses have said, then he clearly had terminated his use of force. If Martin was continuing to beat him and made Zimmerman fear for his life, then Zimmerman was within his right to use deadly force.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Mister-Jr's Avatar
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    Shooting and killing unarmed person is the most extreme form of self defense. The shooter better have some extreme reason to do and it better include something more than saying it was self defense, otherwise the shooter ends up like Zimmerman.

  10. #10
    Senior Member RedBaron's Avatar
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    I wonder how much money they spent to figure that out?
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