Recreational Catch Shares....

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  1. #1
    Senior Member CaptBobBryant's Avatar
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    Recreational Catch Shares....

    We have seen a lot of talk lately about Recreational Catch Shares (coming to a Walmart near you).

    But let's look at the logistics of a situation like this.

    Now over in the commercial sector they had a vote, and since it did not come out the way they wanted, they then voted again, but this time weighted the vote based on historical take and surprise..surprise...surprise...the vote went through.

    So in the recreational sector, how will we do it...
    Surely they would not be stupid enough to put it to a vote as here in the GOM it would be a hand downs defeat; so it is almost a given it will be an edict from NMFS.
    So now how will they decide who gets how many shares....we have no historical landings to go by...so I guess then it will be up to the highest bidder...or will you go down to Walmart and purchase your shares.

    Will there be limits on how much someone can buy....will the limits be by boat or angler?
    Will non-fishing people be able to buy shares to remove them from the fishery?
    How will it all be enforced?

    To me it seems to be a huge boondoggle.....

  2. #2
    Senior Member ACME Ventures Fishing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptBobBryant View Post
    So in the recreational sector, how will we do it...
    They already have a gameplan in the works.....Divide and Conquer!

    First, Sector Seperatior. CFH/Headboat Pilot Program. No details, just winging it, and in the
    end it will be declared a sucess and model no matter what the outcome. Then a referundum
    will happen, and with a precident already established, an eligible voter criteria will be determined
    along the lines of those most likely to approve it.

    Once they force this upon the fishery, the remaining private rec quota will be fair game for anyone
    of several options. With little fish left to divide, the private rec's will scramble to secure anything
    that will not shut them out completely. Tags would be a likely option, with, yes big Catch Share
    donor Walton Foundation (aka Walmart) offering to manage the distribution (sale) of these "rights"
    to catch a fish!

    If we do not fight this battle abroad, wherever it starts, soon it will be in our backyard!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACME Ventures Fishing View Post
    They already have a gameplan in the works.....Divide and Conquer!

    First, Sector Seperatior. CFH/Headboat Pilot Program. No details, just winging it, and in the
    end it will be declared a sucess and model no matter what the outcome. Then a referundum
    will happen, and with a precident already established, an eligible voter criteria will be determined
    along the lines of those most likely to approve it.

    Once they force this upon the fishery, the remaining private rec quota will be fair game for anyone
    of several options. With little fish left to divide, the private rec's will scramble to secure anything
    that will not shut them out completely. Tags would be a likely option, with, yes big Catch Share
    donor Walton Foundation (aka Walmart) offering to manage the distribution (sale) of these "rights"
    to catch a fish!

    If we do not fight this battle abroad, wherever it starts, soon it will be in our backyard!
    The above is Spot on. In fact, believe there is a "days at sea" pilot program currently running in the gulf region for select CFH operators. Have no doubt it will be reported as a success.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ANUMBER1's Avatar
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    Days at sea have been used in NE commercial fisheries(unhappily) long before CS. I personaly can't fathom how CS would work in a rec fishery(not charter), enforcement would be a nightmare.
    If I were a charter operator with a long history of landings then maybe CS would be a better alt to long closures with no income flow.

    I could see a tagging system for recs similar to NW salmon with an open and closed season(another system thats been in place for years before CS).

    I'll put my tinfoil hat back on now and hide in the tub. Peace!
    This place rocks!
    Now

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANUMBER1 View Post
    Days at sea have been used in NE commercial fisheries(unhappily) long before CS. I personaly can't fathom how CS would work in a rec fishery(not charter), enforcement would be a nightmare.
    If I were a charter operator with a long history of landings then maybe CS would be a better alt to long closures with no income flow.

    I could see a tagging system for recs similar to NW salmon with an open and closed season(another system thats been in place for years before CS).

    I'll put my tinfoil hat back on now and hide in the tub. Peace!

    No come on back to play Captain, "you're good". What you stated is most likely what would happen if gulf charter migrates from days at sea into "catch shares". the portion of the recreational reef fish TAC left for the non-charter fisherman would most likely be allocated by the use of fish tags purchased from WalMart etc. until the stores "run out" of tags allocated for that year.

    I heard Dr. R. Crabtree state the above as a notional plan at a informal round table meeting approximately two years ago. The gulf council has been headed that way ever since. One problem that l have with the above is that the private tax paying citizens of Florida (who may mant to fish in FL state waters) go behind the fisherman from Kansas who pay for a charter. We the private citizens of FL would have to hope we can find a fish tag at walmart. There are many other problems with it such as NFS has no idea about the total current size of the northern gulf biomass of red snapper in my opinion.
    Last edited by markw4321; 04-10-2012 at 10:44 PM.

  6. #6
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    RECREATIONAL CATCH SHARES

    These studies are currently being funded by the NMFS to explore the nuts and bolts of implementing recreational catch share pools.

    http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ocs/mafac/m...omstock_cs.ppt

    Some lowlights;
    Creating a recreational catch share pool can promote conservation
    Anglers purchase annual stamp to be able to access pool
    limit on stamps
    Non-profit entity would be responsible for keeping anglers within limit using bag limits, season lengths, and angler limits
    Ability to exclude anglers without stamps

    Seems to me that the NMFS would have better spent the money on assessments rather than this crap.

    Capt. Thomas J. Hilton

  7. #7
    Moderator Got TA Go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw4321 View Post
    We the private citizens of FL would have to hope we can find a fish tag at walmart.
    I live closer to Havana than Walmart. So accessability might be an issue. I can go W/I a 60 mile round trip to catch Red Snapper, but I'd have to go 280 miles to get the tag.

    So much for EDF trying to lower the Carbon Footprint.

    Rob
    Largest Private Charter Vessel in the Lower Keys
    www.easyridercharterskeywest.com

    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.

  8. #8
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    I've been a "lurker" on the ConFron section for awhile as an extremely concerned Florida family rec fisherman, mostly out of Steinhatchee and occasionally St. Augustine (I live in Gainesville). Catch shares for the simple, small time rec guy got my attention and I fired off an email of my concern to Holly Bins at Pew. Below is my email to her and her response. For what it's worth, I don't find her response overly soothing to my concerns.

    My email:

    "Subject: Catch Shares and Family Fishing

    Holly,

    I consider myself a conservationist and have a question regarding "Catch Shares". How will this apply to the recreational fisherman, who in Florida where I live, supports thousands of jobs and are the most ardent supporters of marine conservation? Catch Shares is for Commercial Fishing only, correct? Family fisherman already buy licenses and are bound by ever decreasing seasons and bag limits. I keep hearing that families will have to BUY fishing opportunities at Wal-Mart in the form of "tags" of some sort. Please tell me that Catch Shares is just for the commercial sector to stop them from their continued over use of a public resource.

    Ritch"

    Her Response:

    "Hi Ritch,

    Thanks for your email, it’s always nice to hear from a fellow conservationist. There isn’t a catch share program for private anglers under consideration by any management body in the Southeast that I know of right now. And, it isn’t something that we (Pew) have asked either of the southeast regional fisheries management councils to consider.

    I’ve attached the executive summary from our white paper on catch shares that outlines our position on them. If you’re interested, I can send you the full report, which also includes some case studies to illustrate how we got to those positions.

    The main conclusion in our white paper is that catch shares are a tool in the toolbox for fisheries managers, much like bag and size limits, gear modifications, etc. They aren’t appropriate in every situation or for every fishery, and the design is key for any catch share program. We recommend a set of principles that we think should guide the development of any new catch share programs. I thought you might be interested this one principle in particular, as it deals a little with recreational fishing:

    • fair and equitable allocation through a transparent and open process,
    including mechanisms to accommodate recreational anglers, working
    fishermen and coastal communities; ownership caps so that one entity
    does not hold an excessive share of the quota; and opportunities for
    new fishermen.

    It is worth noting that this is mostly focused on catch shares in commercial fisheries. How they would work in recreational fisheries or whether they are appropriate is not something we’ve dug very deeply into at this point. I hope this answers your questions. Thanks again for your email.

    Cheers,

    Holly

    Holly Binns
    Director, Southeast and U.S. Caribbean Fish Conservation Campaign
    The Pew Charitable Trusts, Pew Environment Group
    cell: 850.322.7845 | office: 850.727.8241 |email: hbinns@pewtrusts.org
    http://www.PewEnvironment.org/Caribb...t.org/GulfFish |www.PewEnvironment.org/SouthAtlanticFish"

  9. #9
    Senior Member ACME Ventures Fishing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ritchd22 View Post
    I've been a "lurker" on the ConFron section for awhile as an extremely concerned Florida family rec fisherman, mostly out of Steinhatchee and occasionally St. Augustine (I live in Gainesville). Catch shares for the simple, small time rec guy got my attention and I fired off an email of my concern to Holly Bins at Pew. Below is my email to her and her response. For what it's worth, I don't find her response overly soothing to my concerns.
    Pew is not the Catch Share promoter....they focus on just getting fisheries closed! They support the
    rigid timelines in the MSRA, and the lack of a requirement of reliable data being used, they even
    OPPOSE a call to Mandate Accurate Data in setting ACL's!

    EDF is the one leading the charge in Catch Shares. They even published a goal and timeline to
    have them established in US fisheries. While it is currently focused primarily on commercial
    fisheries, it is being turned to the recreational side. Charter/Headboat and Private Rec cannot
    be dealt with the same, so 'Sector Seperation' comes first. A proposed pilot program is already
    being discussed for the GOM CFH fishery, and the allocations or quota used would come from the
    Rec TAC.

    No one aside from a very small handfull of EDF sponsored fishermen and the ENGO's themselves
    want this, but with such strong ties to the helm at NOAA, its being pushed reguardless of what
    the stakeholders want.

    Next time you go out fishing, catching an extreme amount of fish your not allowed to keep,
    thank Catch Shares. The hundreds of millions of dollars spent promoting this scheme has not
    allowed enough in the budget to perform the necessary Stock Assesments to determine the
    biomass and adjust the harvest rate to match what fishermen are finding! Its all about
    priorities, and that is not science or data! Most Catch Shares fisheries have seen job losses between
    20% and 60%. Inagine what that would relate to on the Recreational side? Limited access,
    Paying for the priviledge to retain a particular fish, if you are able to secure the right, less fishermen
    allowed to participate....and on and on. Its already proven to be devistating in commercial
    fisheries, so why should rec's think it will be no different here?

    Again, many ENGO's are involved in the Catch Share push, but EDF is the big player, and their
    former vice-chair, Jane Lubchenco who worked on Catch Shares and the MSRA while at EDF is
    now NOAA's director, over all our federal fishery policy.....see the connection?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACME Ventures Fishing View Post
    Next time you go out fishing, catching an extreme amount of fish your not allowed to keep,
    thank Catch Shares.
    Thanks for the education. Most of this is WAY beyond me as, like I said, fish a couple weekends a month if I'm lucky, with my wife and kids. I know what you mean about fish you can't keep, particularly with Red Snapper. Caught some last year in an area I always pick up Gags and Kings. Never caught ARS that shallow before. I haven't been offshore since August or September. Haven't had a reason with all the closures. I tried during the Gag mini season last fall, but it was always too rough and windy on the weekends I could go. The Gulf Council and NOAA are really pissing me off.

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