Government Assistance Comes With Strings - Page 5

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  1. #41
    Senior Member Grady-lady's Avatar
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    The following is an analysis of the bill, SB 1658, introduced by Senator Storms.

    An excerpt:

    Summary:
    This bill prohibits a recipient from using his or her electronic benefit transfer (EBT) card to access cash benefits outside this state, to purchase alcohol or tobacco products, or to access automated teller machines located in gambling and adult entertainment establishments. The bill also provides a list of establishments inside the state that a cash assistance recipient may not access cash benefits through an EBT card from an automated teller machine (ATM).
    Additionally, the bill requires the Department of Children and Family Services (DCF or department) to add nonstaple, unhealthy foods to the list of items that may not be purchased with federal Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program funds. The bill also prohibits the use of benefits at restaurants.
    This bill amends sections 402.82 and 414.095, Florida Statutes.


    http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...12s1658.cf.PDF




    Excerpts from an article:

    Don't tell food stamp recipients what to eat, House panel says


    A legislative effort to restrict the use of cash assistance benefits for the needy passed its second House committee Monday. But the most controversial portion of the proposal -- a lengthy list of snacks and junk foods that can't be purchased using food stamps -- may be doomed.


    ...Several trade groups representing grocery and convenience stores also registered their opposition to the proposal, including the Florida Retail Federation, Florida Beverage Association and Florida Petroleum Marketers & Convenience Store Association.


    http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-bu...use-panel-says

    Look who the opposition is.
    One of the reasons I introduced this topic...our state senators and representatives are more accessible than their counterparts at the federal level. I encourage anyone interested to read the entire analysis, trying to take their own common sense stance, not a party line...then contact their state reps with their opinion.

    IMHO, this is not a matter of discriminating against or denying benefits to the poor and hungry...this is a matter of good government stewardship of money that has been lawfully taken from those who have earned it. It is not a mattter of telling grown adults what they can eat, or what establishments they can visit on their own dime...it is telling grown adults that funds from the 'Supplemental Nutition Assistance Program' need to spent on nutritious food, and that emergency family cash assistance cannot be used for gambling and/or peep shows.

    These measures will not eliminate all fraud and abuse by those who know how to get around the rules, but it will , for the majority of recipients, limit public money to the purchase of nutritious foods...what anyone does with the money they themselves earn is their own business.
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

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  2. #42
    Senior Member Mister-Jr's Avatar
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    GL - tell you brother all he needs 800 or 900 sf with, I will generous and let him have air conditioning. If he is living off a government subsidy, that is all he needs.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Grady-lady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichthusphile View Post
    Yep, clear as mud: The result is they can withdraw cash whenever and wherever they find a participating ATM machine.
    As I understand it...only if they are receiving emergency family cash assistance...and have a cash balance in the fund. Not all EBT users receive cash assistance, and it is limited both on dollar amount and duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichthusphile View Post

    As for Publix, we are not expecting cashiers to police a billion dollar governmental program are we?
    The cashiers aren't required to police it now, are they? As cadman pointed out, WIC is very targeted, and EBT already has restrictions in place. Those restrictions must be in the computerized scanning system of the store. Ineligible items can't be paid for with WIC funds or EBT funds...the proposed bill is requesting that more items be added to the restricted list.

    Maybe someone with the knowledge of the way grocery stores handle the situation will explain it. I thought that upon scanning the EBT card, the ineligible items were placed in a separate category, that would require cash, check or credit card for payment...otherwise, back on the shelf they go.
    No?
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

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  4. #44
    Senior Member Ichthusphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady View Post
    As I understand it...only if they are receiving emergency family cash assistance...and have a cash balance in the fund. Not all EBT users receive cash assistance, and it is limited both on dollar amount and duration.
    I think it's State by State but I'll have to look later. Have a great day.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Grady-lady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister-Jr View Post
    GL - tell you brother all he needs 800 or 900 sf with, I will generous and let him have air conditioning. If he is living off a government subsidy, that is all he needs.
    I'll be sure and relay your generosity to him...right now, he is visiting a dying parishioner at a hospital 50 miles away. He's been there for several hours...the family called him at home well before daylight. Saturday he missed my 12 year old niece's audition on the French Horn because a church member with a troubled marriage called him, at home, and needed to talk. I will also tell him that he is entitled to $10,000 or so of your tax money, cash, of course. He will be delighted.

    And may I also tell him that as an honorable citizen, you will no longer deduct any of the IRS allowable business expenses, such as: deductions for a home office...or that you will donate those 'profits' (re:tax-exempt deductions) back to the government for charitable purchases, since all the money you have earned and all the 'benefits' that make up your salary package, belong to the government anyway. May I tell him that?

    Now, would you care to respond to the following?
    'Any whoo...seems not long ago someone on here, (could it have been you?)...expressed the opinion that health-style choices were the business of folks paying the bills.'

    You can continue to press the issue if you like, I've never been a thread-nazi...but I would think more highly of your opinion if you would also address the issue at hand. The choice, as always, is yours...
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

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  6. #46
    Senior Member Mister-Jr's Avatar
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    You may accept the facts or continue to live in a fantasy world and make your straw man arguments. The topic is should we regulate how people use government spending, in this case it is food sudsidies. All tax credits are goverment spending so why limit yourself to one class of recipients unless you have a particular grievance with the poor?


    . A great deal of government spending is hidden in the federal tax code in the form of deductions, credits, and other preferences — preferences that seem like they let taxpayers keep their own money, but are actually spending in disguise.

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...cfm?ID=1001542

  7. #47
    Senior Member Grady-lady's Avatar
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    Mister-Jr,

    Third time...would you care to respond?:
    '...seems not long ago someone on here, (could it have been you?)...expressed the opinion that health-style choices were the business of folks paying the bills.'


    On the topic that you have voluntarily joined in on...in your opinion, should accessing the cash assistance or purchasing food under the 'Supplemental Nutition Assistance Program' be further restricted? That is the proposal before the Florida Legislature.
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=344&dateline=13073685  84

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mister-Jr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady View Post
    Mister-Jr,

    Third time...would you care to respond?:
    '...seems not long ago someone on here, (could it have been you?)...expressed the opinion that health-style choices were the business of folks paying the bills.'
    I am not sure what you are referring to. Please be more specific.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady
    On the topic that you have voluntarily joined in on...in your opinion, should accessing the cash assistance or purchasing food under the 'Supplemental Nutition Assistance Program' be further restricted? That is the proposal before the Florida Legislature.
    Not until we do away with all tax credits. I have no idea why people think it's ok to tell one group of government spending recipients how to use the money, but ignore all others, which include 99% of us to some degree. I view it as class war on the poor and I have not seen one person attempt to prove anything differently.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Grady-lady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister-Jr View Post
    I am not sure what you are referring to. Please be more specific..
    It's been a long time since I have owned a Dodge, but I can still recognize one when I see one.
    Let's update the question then, folks are, afterall entitled to change their minds as the situation changes. Are you now of the opinion that you have a right to insist that people, whose health care you are funding, take good care of themselves?
    You may plead the Fifth, it will not be held against you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister-Jr View Post

    Not until we do away with all tax credits. I have no idea why people think it's ok to tell one group of government spending recipients how to use the money, but ignore all others, which include 99% of us to some degree. I view it as class war on the poor and I have not seen one person attempt to prove anything differently.
    There are distinctions between tax credits, tax-free expenditures, allowable deductions (those two apply to income earned) and cash benefits...you know this. As long as you are under the impression that all money is government money, as long as you believe that anyone using a legitimate tax deduction is taking your money, then no one will ever be able to explain in terms that you can understand. You say you own a business...you are allowed to deduct certain expenses, it is well within you right to do so, are you saying that you, in good conscience do not take any deductions from your expenses? Do you actually get all your income tax money back from the IRS, or do you not have to pay income tax on certain expenditures, thereby keeping a little more of money you earned in the first palce?

    Answer this, if you please...if you believe that those receiving nutritional assistance from their fellow citizens, ie the taxpayers, should not be required to use that monetary assistance to acquire nutritional food for their families...then what about the rights of the taxpayers to be forced to buy junk food for them?...or forced to pay for the resulting health care problems?

    My right to spend all of my own money as I see fit is not honored by a government that takes it from me, thru threat of force, and gives it to another. I didn't buy chips and soda or fast food for my own children, yet you are comfortable forcing me to buy it for someone else's children? How do you feel about the push to raise nutrition standards in schools? Personally, until we no longer provide a public education with school breakfasts and lunches, I'm all for it!...so is Michele Obama.

    The proposal before the Florida legislature does not address how the poor spends their own money, but how well the middle man (the government) honors the implied contract with the taxpayers to provide 'nutritional assistance' or cash assistance to those in need...with as much dignity as possible. The food purchased under such a contract should at least be 'nutritional'.

    How anyone can label that class warfare defies logic, unless that narrative fits a political agenda...sobeit.
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=344&dateline=13073685  84

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mister-Jr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady View Post
    It's been a long time since I have owned a Dodge, but I can still recognize one when I see one.
    Let's update the question then, folks are, afterall entitled to change their minds as the situation changes. Are you now of the opinion that you have a right to insist that people, whose health care you are funding, take good care of themselves?
    You may plead the Fifth, it will not be held against you.
    You have gone off on a tangent here which you have nothing, and serves no purpose.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady
    There are distinctions between tax credits, tax-free expenditures, allowable deductions (those two apply to income earned) and cash benefits
    Politically you might want to believe this, but economically they are the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-Lady
    As long as you are under the impression that all money is government money, as long as you believe that anyone using a legitimate tax deduction is taking your money, then no one will ever be able to explain in terms that you can understand.
    I never said that. You are attempting to put words in my mouth because that is all you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady
    You say you own a business...you are allowed to deduct certain expenses, it is well within you right to do so, are you saying that you, in good conscience do not take any deductions from your expenses? Do you actually get all your income tax money back from the IRS, or do you not have to pay income tax on certain expenditures, thereby keeping a little more of money you earned in the first palce?
    I do own a business and take every deduction the IRS code allows me. I also own tax free munis, because they are tax free


    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady
    Answer this, if you please...if you believe that those receiving nutritional assistance from their fellow citizens, ie the taxpayers, should not be required to use that monetary assistance to acquire nutritional food for their families...then what about the rights of the taxpayers to be forced to buy junk food for them?...or forced to pay for the resulting health care problems?
    I am forced to pay for all of the uninsured whether that are on food assistance or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady
    My right to spend all of my own money as I see fit is not honored by a government that takes it from me, thru threat of force, and gives it to another. I didn't buy chips and soda or fast food for my own children, yet you are comfortable forcing me to buy it for someone else's children? How do you feel about the push to raise nutrition standards in schools? Personally, until we no longer provide a public education with school breakfasts and lunches, I'm all for it!...so is Michele Obama.
    Taxes are a part of our country and Constitution and are not forcibly taken from you. To say it is makes your attitude even less meanful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grady-lady
    The proposal before the Florida legislature does not address how the poor spends their own money, but how well the middle man (the government) honors the implied contract with the taxpayers to provide 'nutritional assistance' or cash assistance to those in need...with as much dignity as possible. The food purchased under such a contract should at least be 'nutritional'.

    How anyone can label that class warfare defies logic, unless that narrative fits a political agenda...sobeit.
    The is no legislation before Florida's law makers about this, it was defeated and since it is a federal program, the Florida GOP had no say in it in the first place. It was just more class war on the poor sponsored by a misguided woman that met it's defeat.

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