How do you think the successful got that way?

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  1. #1
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    How do you think the successful got that way?

    I am proudly in the top 5% of eager earners in the U.S. but am tired of hearing the liberals bash those of us who studied, worked hard, and sacrificed to be successful.

    To hear many liberals speak I either am an immoral crook who takes advantage of those less fortunate than me, inherited what I have, cheat on my taxes, or hit the lottery of life.

    None of the above is true. I have been audited but was found to be in complete compliance with the laws. My parents were middle class people who grew up during the depression and taught my siblings the importantace of hard work and living within our means and I certainly didn't hit the lottery of life. I worked through college, went to grad school while working full time and worked an average of 70-80 hours per week from my thirties thru fifties.

    So before you so quickly bash those of us who pay the vast majority of the bills for this country ask why you haven't been so successful. Many have other priorities and that is fine for them but do criticize those who subsidize you children and home loans. You are the ones who may have had children you can't afford, run up credit card debt, and bought property you couldn't afford. Those were your choices don't ask me to bail you out.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Bimini Twisted's Avatar
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    I don't begrudge your success, and I'm doing just fine myself considering my parents lost everything to Castro and we started from scratch.

    The difference may be that I realize that I have been blessed. I was born into a good family, sent to very good schools, had some great teachers, and a bit of luck, but not all are as fortunate as you and me, and I have seen many people that for whatever reason can't catch a break or are just born a bit touched.

    I don't look down on them for that, and would like to do what I can to help them. We are not all created equal.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lobstercatcher229's Avatar
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    Congrats to you two. I am glad that we live in a country where you can succeed. I feel sorry for folks in places like Bangladesh or Haiti where the opportunities aren't so available.

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    Senior Member Bimini Twisted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobstercatcher229 View Post
    Congrats to you two. I am glad that we live in a country where you can succeed. I feel sorry for folks in places like Bangladesh or Haiti where the opportunities aren't so available.
    My point is, that in this country, there are many people whose opportunities are limited for many different reasons. Is it like Bangladesh or Haiti? Perhaps not, but fact is some rise to the top, and some may have a harder time just getting by. Considering we are a nation of 300+ Million, IMHO, a little compassion and caring for fellow man can go a long way.

    A rising tide lifts all boats.

  5. #5
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    The question is one social scientists and economists have struggled over for decades.......and it comes down basically to the nature/nurture controversy.

    Myself, I'm comfortable with theory that it is a combination of, luck, pluck, and conditions. Seems to me we need a fair portion of each for someone to be successful, though I am not sure of the actual proportions.

    Of the 3 I'd rate pluck, persistence, as the factor that will take you the furthest regardless of the other conditions. This is not to say that a persistent man would not be derailed and ruined by bad luck or poor conditions but rather that when bad luck and poor conditions occur it is the persistent man who will more often than not still rise.

    With that as my understanding I see of the 3 there being only the conditions, and by conditions I mean the social/political component of the place where we live, as the one thing we can truly effect by policy. And I think the fact that we so often argue over precisely this, the policy of a society as testimony to a general understanding among most of us that this is so.

    Fact is that both the left and the right know and want the average man and woman, the man who will never hit the lottery, the woman who has no wealth to inherit, to have a good shot, assuming they apply effort, at rising. No disagreement on that basic fact I think..................

    But the means we employ and their effictivness.......that is the argument. Sadly it gets treated the way it does for the real tradgety in life is the honest man, who works hard, always spends a bit less than he makes, who is competent, who gives value for value given and who understands that while he is not blessed with genus also knows he is smart enough, the tradgedy is when that man is kept down by policy.

  6. #6
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    Parkerboy, if you don't see the advantages you had just by being born in the US, being a certain color, certain sex, certain religion, etc. All of which made your "climb" to the "top 5% of eager(?) earners in the U.S." soooo much easier through no doing of your own, and that doesn't make you feel grateful, instead of spiteful and bitter towards those who "haven't been so successful"... then I feel sorry for you.

    As for your perception that "many liberals... (feel you are) either am an immoral crook who takes advantage of those less fortunate than (you), inherited what (you) have, cheat on (your) taxes, or hit the lottery of life"... let's just say you are giving "many liberals" AND yourself far too much credit and power. Your perception is quite telling about your own psychology.

    In fact, chances are that YOU have availed yourself of a government program or two in your life. Check out this report (Table 3, in particular) to check whether YOU have ever asked the rest of us to help fund "your choices."

    http://government.arts.cornell.edu/a...at_mettler.pdf
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/op...-benefits.html

    Finally, we will agree on one thing: by and large the rich and successful get and stay that way by working incredibly hard, more so than the vast majority of less successful people. I agree with you there is a perception (I'd say class driven; you've said ideologically driven) among many that fails to factor in simple sacrifice and hard work.

    But don't be bitter man, be grateful!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Menzies's Avatar
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    5% ers?

    slackers.
    When a child speaks of you this way, there is not much more to achieve... "Daddy taught me how to sing, how to spoil those you love, how to plan for the future, and how to drink a beer on a hot day. Not only is my dad cooler than your dad, he's also cooler than you."

  8. #8
    Senior Member Gardawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bimini Twisted View Post
    My point is, that in this country, there are many people whose opportunities are limited for many different reasons. Is it like Bangladesh or Haiti? Perhaps not, but fact is some rise to the top, and some may have a harder time just getting by. Considering we are a nation of 300+ Million, IMHO, a little compassion and caring for fellow man can go a long way.

    A rising tide lifts all boats.
    Most folks don't own a boat ... they're already up to their neck in water ... a rising tide drowns those folk

    nit picking your analogy aside ... I agree that the best way for the rich to get richer is to for the poor people to have more money to spend ... the more money poor people spend the more profit the producers make ...

  9. #9
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    I'm not a "liberal" or a "conservative", don't like the labels. Success is measured in other ways besides money but I'm happy for you. Maybe with a little luck, timing and working you became wealthy. What you and others like you don't seem to realize is that the average Joe in this country can't make it. 50% of the workers in this country average $500 a week gross pay while the top earners complain that they don't pay enough taxes. One in six don't have enough food at the end of the day. The 50% I speak of are scammed daily by a gov't that lets gas prices be manipulated by refiners and lets drug companies have a cash pipeline into their pockets. Maybe it's not you or the majority of the other top earners they are angry with. The average worker in America should be able to pay rent, buy food, afford medical care and the other necessities of life and even a couple luxuries without being "bailed out". Instead they have been sold out to a system that makes them compete with slave labor and an unregulated flow of immigrants. What a country.
    Corruption is the enemy. Lobbyists and the FED have ruined the country.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Frankee The Yankee's Avatar
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    Im sorry buy anyone who chooses to work hard and follow the rules will at least live a nice life in the usa. If you are poor you probably didnt work hard enough or follow the rules. Yes there are a few exceptions but there is social saftey nets for them already in place.

    Liberals just want equal results. You know every kid gets a trophy

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