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  1. #21
    Senior Member Tarponator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fins4me View Post
    Eliminated physical currency, , underway

    Eliminate the right to bear arms,,,underway

    Eliminate the freedom to travel at will in an automobile, , underway

    Eliminate private property rights,,,,underway

    Eliminate business owners rights,,,underway

    Eliminate freedom of religion, ,,underway

    Eliminate the spirit of competition, ,,underway

    Eliminate the right to privacy, ,,underway

    Etc

    Etc

    Etc

    Just getting started down a path that will lead to,,,, well we are underway.
    Fins,

    I ask you this quite sincerely: Why are you so fearful of progress that you view most any incremental change through such a lens?

    For example, why isn't cryptocurrency viewed as a free market alternative rather than the boogeyman coming for your cash? Why aren't autonomous cars simply the market addressing a demand rather than your complete loss of driving rights? Etc.?

    In the 1970's, did you argue those new-fangled Jelly Worms will lead to elimination of your God-given right to use live earthworms?!?

    I truly don't understand what makes that type of fear tick. What life lesson did I miss that strikes such trepidation into how one views change? I don't get it. Why does it make you (or anyone for that matter) so uneasy?

    Happy Saturday...Mike
    Last edited by Tarponator; 01-13-2018 at 05:37 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member fins4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarponator View Post
    Fins,

    I ask you this quite sincerely: Why are you so fearful of progress that you view most any incremental change through such a lens?

    For example, why isn't cryptocurrency viewed as a free market alternative rather than the boogeyman coming for your cash? Why aren't autonomous cars simply the market addressing a demand rather than your complete loss of driving rights? Etc.?

    In the 1970's, did you argue those new-fangled Jelly Worms will lead to elimination of your God-given right to use live earthworms?!?

    I truly don't understand what makes that type of fear tick. What life lesson did I miss that strikes such trepidation into how one views change? I don't get it. Why does it make you (or anyone for that matter) so uneasy?

    Happy Saturday...Mike
    Progress for the fringes most often leads to tyranny for the masses. Ask a couple of bakers about how "progress" destroyed their business. Everyone of the concerns I brought up have legitimate pathways to tyranny. If you are a sheep and blindly trust the herders in DC and beyond then I guess tyranny often looks exactly like progress.

  3. #23
    Senior Member fins4me's Avatar
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    In California an almond farmer recently lost his right to farm because our government deemed water collected in tractor tracks as a wetland. It was in the name of progress of course.

  4. #24
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    Figures they would use San Francisco as the backdrop for this. One thing I can say with certainty the drivers out here are the worst I have ever seen. I have never seen so many rollover accidents. It only rains here during the winter and it does not last long. People drive the same regardless of the conditions and the results show. I don't want a self-driving car but I think it might help things out here. I wonder if they will be programmed to drive at certain speeds and certain routes given traffic patterns etc?

  5. #25
    Senior Member mjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Ex-pat View Post
    One thing I can say with certainty the drivers out here are the worst I have ever seen.

    So you have never driven in Florida?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjn View Post
    So you have never driven in Florida?
    I hope everyone in the villages buys one of these self driving cars. Hopefully they make them for golf carts too.
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarponator View Post
    Fins,

    I ask you this quite sincerely: Why are you so fearful of progress that you view most any incremental change through such a lens?

    For example, why isn't cryptocurrency viewed as a free market alternative rather than the boogeyman coming for your cash? Why aren't autonomous cars simply the market addressing a demand rather than your complete loss of driving rights? Etc.?

    In the 1970's, did you argue those new-fangled Jelly Worms will lead to elimination of your God-given right to use live earthworms?!?

    I truly don't understand what makes that type of fear tick. What life lesson did I miss that strikes such trepidation into how one views change? I don't get it. Why does it make you (or anyone for that matter) so uneasy?

    Happy Saturday...Mike
    Tarponator you said it yourself in the first sentence of your reply, incremental. You are correctly stating what Fins fears. The fringes know they could never outright say we will today ban all private automobiles and everyone will use mass transit and live in giant skyscrapers in cities. So they begin the process by chipping away and using the same arguments you are using in your statement. Example: Here in California you can legally own a gun. But if you think you can simply walk into a store, buy a gun, ammo for that gun, walk out and go to a range and shoot you are sorely mistaken. You must fill out an application and get a background check done (seems reasonable right?), take and show proof of a firearms safety course (seems reasonable right), wait for 7-14 days as a cooling off period (seems reasonable right?), register your firearm (seems reasonable right), buy proper storage and trigger locks for your firearm (seems reasonable right), buy ammo but you must register all the ammo you buy (seems reasonable right?), when transporting your firearm the ammunition and weapon must be secured separately for the duration of transportation (seems reasonable right?). Now when gun enthusiasts state their rights are being infringed upon they are told that they can still legally own and keep a firearm, but going through all of the above makes many law abiding citizens say no thanks, the exact intention. Then the apathy shows when so few law abiding citizens put up with the hassle that the needed votes can be accrued for an outright ban on firearms, the goal from the start. This is not paranoia this is how the system is used by vocal minority groups to get the results they want for their particular issue. Just take the above scenario and apply it to cars. I can take you down the process for cars here in California and how it has changed over the years and the comparisons are similar. California tends to lead the nation down these types of paths. The fringes are patient and very calculated.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Cyclist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fins4me View Post
    In California an almond farmer recently lost his right to farm because our government deemed water collected in tractor tracks as a wetland. It was in the name of progress of course.
    Total and utter BS.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post
    Total and utter BS.
    you posting on here raised a thought, these cars must have sensors to detect bicyclists on the road too. I can see a train of 40 cars all behind a group of bikers because none of the cars have drivers to pass.
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjn View Post
    So you have never driven in Florida?
    Yes for many years. In my observations it is not even close. But you may have a different experience.

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