Comments for Closing Commercial Fishing on the Mosquito Lagoon MINWR - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    You are *SAYING* in is not the same thing...because you...have a vested interest. It is EXACTLY the same...

    YOU....are running a business inside a National wildlife refuge... YOU are deriving INCOME from said use...

    The fact is that they have many rules for all different stakeholder groups... I pay dearly for the opportunity...to APPLY to get a permit...to use the NWR for less than 6 hours...and pay $25 for that!...If I can get one.


    Photographers = Free
    Birders = Free
    Hikers / bikers = Free
    Rec Crabbers / fisherman = Free

    Hunters...Oh heck no buddy...you are going to pay ...plenty!

    So, while I understand your position...my "rabbit hole" analogy is to point out that ANY user group can (and will) point a finger and say " What about him? "

    So really, what I am saying is...be careful...the slope can get slippery...

    For the record....I think *EVERYONE who enters...should pay something.... because the infrastructure for that birders Prius..is the same for my pick up truck.
    You are wrong, there is a fee for every one who enters here. Now commercial users pay different. I pay over $2000 a year between my permit and all of my federal requirements to be out here. So does every other guide. You can get a year permit for $15! And I am one of those that at least pay to play. I can list 10 guides right now that have all over their website the "Mosquito Lagoon" and do not have a CUA. yet they still fish here. Because they know they will not get caught, so why bother to get one.

    I did a Showtime camera boat a few months ago and they were on the water for 3 hours and paid over $1500 for their stuff and permits with CNSS. They did it by the book. Sure other camera crews just do it and do not get caught. The filming is just one example of a business out here.

    Birders pay the same
    Hikers pay the same
    Crabbers pay the same
    photographers pay the same
    Fishermen pay the same


    Here is from their site, for just filming. Call them and say you want to do a tour boat, take people bird watching and ask what they need from you. Plan on about $2000 a year for the permit, along with insurances. So they all pay:


    Commercial Photography & Filming Permits

    The beauty of the pristine beaches within Canaveral National Seashore has provided location for a variety of films, commercials, and print advertisements.
    If you are planning to do any filming or photography involving talent, products or props in front of a camera, you will need to obtain a filming permit. All permit applications are reviewed on a case-by-case basis, and will not normally be issued for areas of high visitation or on weekends. Please contact (321) 267-1110 for further information and location fees.

    Short Form Commercial Filming Application

    Long Form Commercial Filming Application

    • Insurance Liability Requirements: $300,000 minimum. Larger scale productions (cast, crew, equipment) typically require liability insurance in the amount of $1,000,000.
    U.S. Federal Government must be listed as ADDITIONAL
    INSURED on liability policy.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellercl View Post
    The whole thing is interesting. I just question, or at least wonder, about the quality of their numbers. I for one have fished god knows how many hours... I have never once been surveyed, which means there is a bunch of extrapolation happening. Which works if the original data set is representative on the true mean. In this case I would wager a guess it is not. Three questions and only to guides... and that means they know how many trout are being kept.... by everybody? That makes no sense to me. Add the cherry on top that they don't publish any sort of reference or protocol on how the numbers are obtained. Just a bunch of questions spinning around, at least in my head.
    I agree with you so much. I am never asked how many I keep, never. If any at all. Or what exact species. Next time I get surveyed I am going to ask them exactly how it works.

    I see the survey lady at River Breeze now and then but I think they are chosen to go to places with a lotto system. Just like when they call me. A few weeks will go by, nothing. Then week after week I get a call that says I have been chosen for the FWC catch survey.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellercl View Post
    The whole thing is interesting. I just question, or at least wonder, about the quality of their numbers. I for one have fished god knows how many hours... I have never once been surveyed, which means there is a bunch of extrapolation happening. Which works if the original data set is representative on the true mean. In this case I would wager a guess it is not. Three questions and only to guides... and that means they know how many trout are being kept.... by everybody? That makes no sense to me. Add the cherry on top that they don't publish any sort of reference or protocol on how the numbers are obtained. Just a bunch of questions spinning around, at least in my head.
    I agree with you so much. I am never asked how many I keep, never. If any at all. Or what exact species. Next time I get surveyed I am going to ask them exactly how it works.

    I see the survey lady at River Breeze now and then but I think they are chosen to go to places with a lotto system. Just like when they call me. A few weeks will go by, nothing. Then week after week I get a call that says I have been chosen for the FWC catch survey.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    You are *SAYING* in is not the same thing...because you...have a vested interest. It is EXACTLY the same...

    YOU....are running a business inside a National wildlife refuge... YOU are deriving INCOME from said use...

    The fact is that they have many rules for all different stakeholder groups... I pay dearly for the opportunity...to APPLY to get a permit...to use the NWR for less than 6 hours...and pay $25 for that!...If I can get one.


    Photographers = Free
    Birders = Free
    Hikers / bikers = Free
    Rec Crabbers / fisherman = Free

    Hunters...Oh heck no buddy...you are going to pay ...plenty!

    So, while I understand your position...my "rabbit hole" analogy is to point out that ANY user group can (and will) point a finger and say " What about him? "

    So really, what I am saying is...be careful...the slope can get slippery...

    For the record....I think *EVERYONE who enters...should pay something.... because the infrastructure for that birders Prius..is the same for my pick up truck.
    You know also I am not guiding on the refuge/park 100% of my charters. More like 30% to 40%. I can go 1 mile down the road and be outside the boundaries. Or off the beaches. Or be in Titusville.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavanaugh68 View Post
    You know also I am not guiding on the refuge/park 100% of my charters. More like 30% to 40%. I can go 1 mile down the road and be outside the boundaries. Or off the beaches. Or be in Titusville.
    To me, this sounds very similar to Everglades National Park. My opinion regarding ENP is that they don't want fisherman there.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Just in case there are those that are not sure where we are talking about. (Roughly) The area in Yellow is the Mosquito Lagoon and National Park/Refuge. Run by the Department of Interior. Outside of the Yellow is basically under FWC control. However the USFWS/NPS does what ever FWC says to do when it comes to keeping fish, or data they have. Which should not be. The refuge/CNSS should be having their own independent surveys for that area in yellow. Separate that data from what FWC gathers in the state. So when that surveyor sits at River Breeze and questions people that come back to the ramp, to the right is refuge and to the left is state waters. But they don't ask even that. Again, lumped into one giant stats bowl.

    This area in yellow is what is in question of closing down commercial Harvest. Tiny area in the grand scheme of things. Compared to Tampa Bay or Everglades for exampleUntitled.jpg. The area within the red is where I, and most others conduct there charters here.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavanaugh68 View Post
    You know also I am not guiding on the refuge/park 100% of my charters. More like 30% to 40%. I can go 1 mile down the road and be outside the boundaries. Or off the beaches. Or be in Titusville.
    What is your point ? ...I feel mine was clear. Are you willing to kick out one "user group"....*AND* get each client to pay an additional $25 fee to fish in there?

    User pays...ALL...every one... want access to take a picture? $25 gets you in. Want to fish? ...sure...$25 gets you in... A nice bike ride...OK, That'll be $25 please and Thank you...

    or.... We allow those few RS permit holders in...just like you...
    *but not like me* ...I still have to pay...*AND* they also cut 20% of the hunt days out this year.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavanaugh68 View Post
    You are wrong, there is a fee for every one who enters here.
    *NOT* wrong...100% right. I can get in my car and drive right in...fill out a card at the kiosk (free) and drop in a kayak...bank fish...crab...shoot pictures..hike ..bike ...all FREE

    I don't even have to pay the $5 ramp fee if I want to boat...if I have (and do) a Federal duck stamp..
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you

  9. #29
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Not sure then what you are saying. I am saying that everyone who goes into there recreational pays. Everyone who goes in there commercially pays. My point on all these are what does each one do, or have an impact on the area when they enter and leave.

    A Photographer(commercial or Recreational) leaves no trace. For example.

    A kayaker kayaks. Leaves no trace. For example.

    A hiker hikes...

    A fisherman, well depends on if they remove a species or not. So that is up for grabs.

    The commercial harvester does not go in there with a choice to practice catch and release commercially! LOL So they 100% remove and leave an impact.

    As far as hunting don't care, don't know anything about it. Not a hunter, have no problem with that.

    What does get me and others with the hunting thing is they allow during certain times of the year the hunters to go down all these areas that are marked "closed to public". Then after hunting season they put those signs back up. There are so many trails I would love to hike down for a few months, like they get to to get some great photography shots, just to see things. of course not at the same time as hunting season, but also not in the heat of summer either. So then why are those areas not open for periods for hikers/photographers? You know like all that area say north of the radar unit at b42? Or north of WSEG? They seem to single out hunters and let them go in there.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Ok, you are talking about just driving through. I am talking about going out on the water, using the ramps. Or going down Bio Lab or Black point. Seems like they single out certain places to pay, like how they do not charge at the manatee deck. You pay for those above unless you have a pass. Still not sure what the point was here. Sorry.

    I have always said why is there not an entrance fee at Max Brewer and SR 3? Just like when you enter Canaveral. I was told years ago that all these fees were to go to a full time marine patrol unit. Then new management took over and that went bye bye.

    So there should be a fee for all or none. Setting commercial use aside, of course.

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