Comments for Closing Commercial Fishing on the Mosquito Lagoon MINWR
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Comments for Closing Commercial Fishing on the Mosquito Lagoon MINWR

    I know a lot of people on here like to catch sea trout and black drum here on the Mosquito Lagoon inside the Merritt Island National Wildlife refuge and CNSS. We also all know how the fishing has been out here over the past few years. Up and down the whole east coast in this area. Not what it used to be ten or twenty years ago for sure.

    So back in 2008 the USFWS and the MINWR said they were phasing out Commercial Fishing on the refuge and national park in Sept. of 2018. So here we are ten years later and they now want to get comments on keeping or allowing this program to continue here on these waters. Until the year 2028. Ten more years of this.

    You have until Sept. 8th, 2017 to submit your comments over this to the USFWS and Refuge at:

    merrittisland@fws.gov

    I have attached the file too.

    I personally think this should end today. I mean they can keep up to 150 trout per day "at times" and 500 pounds of drum a day. Let alone running around with the throw-able gill nets, derelict crab traps you need to avoid, navigating the gauntlet of trap buoys in the dark and so on.

    I like to eat and keep a fish here and there like many. But this body of water is unique and should be looked at carefully. FWC lumps all the stats for the state into one pile when making decisions and limits. When they need to look at zones and then set things.

    However on these particular waters I do practice catch and release, personally and for my clients. I also to be clear are not against commercial fishing or fishermen. Just not inside a national park or especially a wild life refuge should commercial harvest be permitted. I also think all of the guides on the lagoon should be forced to do catch and release as well. I think this would set and lead a good example.

    So please pass this around and submit your comments and thoughts. Thank You.

    https://www.facebook.com/MerrittIsla...type=3&theater

    20170822 2pp Public Scoping Flyer_Page_1.jpg20170822 2pp Public Scoping Flyer_Page_2.jpg

  2. #2
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    A slippery slope....

    Today Trout fisherman...tomorrow..Guides? After all...should we allow someone to run a business inside our National parks without being a concessionaire?
    10K permit....?? Seems fair price to run a biz....

    See where this is a rabbit hole..... ??
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you

  3. #3
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    A slippery slope....

    Today Trout fisherman...tomorrow..Guides? After all...should we allow someone to run a business inside our National parks without being a concessionaire?
    10K permit....?? Seems fair price to run a biz....

    See where this is a rabbit hole..... ??
    Not even close to the same thing. I fall under the same rules and laws as you do with FWC and Florida. Limits and tactics. So then what about the businesses like photographers inside the refuge? A painter who paints a sunset then sells it at a fair? Tour guides? Kayak rentals? Manatee tours? Bird watching tours? So on? What is the economic impact of that, just stopping all biz in here? There is a big difference in "each" business and what they offer and do, how they do it. Some leave no impact, some do. Some bring a huge economic positive impact to the area. Those are businesses too, that with your thought should go away then, with that rabbit hole?

    Also if they said no more fishing guides out here then so be it. I am 100% good with that. There are other waters to fish. I am talking now about how these fish are going away and not as good as it used to be, and commercial fishing does not help. Again inside the park and refuge. Not on state waters. Federal. And if they did do that, then that would most likely say no more fishing for any one at all. Including you.

    That is the whole point of the post. There is no difference between you going out with a friend and catching 5 fish and me taking a client out to fish and catching 5 fish. You and I both have the same laws to follow. Other than most likely my client has spent money on a hotel, rented a car, paid me, bought gas, ate at a restaurant, paid for airfare, possibly done other things in the area and so on. If the park said your permit now cost $1000(within reason, not $10000. That is like saying it now cost you $100 a day to launch your boat at the ramp) a year, then I would say yes. Along as they enforce all of the illegal pirate guides doing it out here without a permit. Which they do not, at all.

    Getting off subject here. You out of all people just posted in another thread not long ago how the trout are going away and not like they use to be. I am talking about how much of an impact the commercial harvest program has on the refuge and Mosquito Lagoon. I have watched in a few days schools of 5000 black drum just go away when word gets out to where they were to the commercial anglers. That same school would take 1000 recreational anglers to kill them in one day the way the law reads.

    Listen I just wanted people to see what the USFWS is looking at doing and what this means for the future of the Mosquito Lagoon and surrounding waters for recreation fishing.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    A slippery slope....

    Today Trout fisherman...tomorrow..Guides? After all...should we allow someone to run a business inside our National parks without being a concessionaire?
    10K permit....?? Seems fair price to run a biz....

    See where this is a rabbit hole..... ??
    Also a note on businesses inside a national park/refuge. Any of them in our nation. I like to follow the theory of if you have a business that leaves no trace or has no negative impact (again, within reason), then that is ok to do. Now yes, the park should limit the number of businesses they allow on the property, which they do. They have capped the refuge guide list now and are no longer allowing new ones to get permits. So if you are not on there now you do not get on there, unless someone drops off the list. Here is the current 2017 list if any one is curious to see who is allowed to guide on the Mosquito Lagoon:

    https://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Pe...Guides2017.pdf

    Here is a letter that someone sent to the MINWR about their feelings of the commercial fishery. This is the kind of economic impact that I am talking about. There are a lot of businesses taht can have this exact same positive impact here, not just fishing guides. If this were to cease, well then bye bye to all. Florida is tourism, fact.

    TO: US Fish and Wildlife Service

    I am a sport fisherman and professional software engineer living in New York, NY. I stand opposed to commercial harvest in Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge and Canaveral National Seashore. I am not a resident of Florida, rather, I am a tourist. One of the primary reasons that I visit Florida, flying into the Orlando area, is for sport fishing. I spend roughly $12,000-$14,000 annually on lodging, rental cars and professional fishing guides in order to fish Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge and Canaveral National Seashore as well as enjoy Florida beaches.

    The primary reason that I choose Florida is because of its active preservation of wildlife. Allowing any commercial harvest in Florida stands in opposition to tourist activity in Florida. Specifically, allowing commercial harvest in Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge and Canaveral National Seashore would undermine the tourism fishing industry of Florida.

    Please stop all commercial harvest in Merritt Island National Wildlife Refuge and Canaveral National Seashore.

    Thanks
    Greg T.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ANUMBER1's Avatar
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    you sporties harvest aprox 8,400 lbs of trout every day in the state of Fl.
    That's harvest and doesn't include the by kill from improper handling.
    You fill the statewide commercial catch in 5.8 days.
    And you want more?

    Back when the fuge was established the commercial fishermen were promised access in perpetuity.. Get that?
    We have the documents from that time and any loss of access will result in litigation.

    Oh, if a tourist eats fresh caught local seafood what category does that economic impact fall under?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    I am catch and release so do not lump me into the catch quota. So are numerous others.

    Also I guess we will see about the litigation. If not I guess the next best thing to do is just to make seatrout, black drum and others a gamefish and that would solve this all together.

    Bottom line is send your comments into the email address above.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ANUMBER1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavanaugh68 View Post
    I am catch and release so do not lump me into the catch quota. So are numerous others.

    Also I guess we will see about the litigation. If not I guess the next best thing to do is just to make seatrout, black drum and others a gamefish and that would solve this all together.

    Bottom line is send your comments into the email address above.
    I've been involved with the process long before you posted this.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Cavanaugh68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANUMBER1 View Post
    I've been involved with the process long before you posted this.
    So have thousands of local recreational anglers and people that have an interest in "sport" fishing here. And yes we have heard about paperwork from a time and a land long ago. But this is now and things change so we will see what happens there. Like I said, should that happen then a massive push to make trout and drum a game fish will simply solve that with no issues what so ever.

    Also where do you get that number? The 8,400 " sportie" (as you like to call us) harvest in 5.8 days?

    Because I find it almost impossible for your or any one to really know how much trout or black drum a rec angler catches and then "harvests" in a day in Florida. We do not have to report catch logs or tell anyone.

    That is at best a guess of a figure. With a margin of error +/- 99%

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANUMBER1 View Post
    you sporties harvest aprox 8,400 lbs of trout every day in the state of Fl.
    That's harvest and doesn't include the by kill from improper handling.
    You fill the statewide commercial catch in 5.8 days.
    And you want more?

    Back when the fuge was established the commercial fishermen were promised access in perpetuity.. Get that?
    We have the documents from that time and any loss of access will result in litigation.

    Oh, if a tourist eats fresh caught local seafood what category does that economic impact fall under?
    Those numbers are highly suspect. Remember they took one interaction with a Dusky shark and said the recs catch 3500 in a three year period ignoring the fact that Dusky is a prohibited species.

    We can count comms better since they have records, but most recreational catches are overly exaggerated in my opinion..

    ( and you know I have been involved as long as you have!)

  10. #10
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    I am sure there is a reference/source behind that 8,400 lb trout per day, but I am calling shenanigans as well. No way that is remotely even close to accurate. Like my Stats professor used to say; "garbage in, garbage out." It doesn't matter how the numbers are crunched, if the numbers were not collected properly in the first place. I'm guessing they did a terrible job at collecting data that is both random and representative of the mean. Most statistical evaluation are not performed poorly at the calculation step, but rather at the data gathering step.

    I think my doubt with that number comes from the size of a trout. Most keepers are what 2 lbs? If that. Hitting that number would require people keeping well over 3,000 trout a day in the state of Florida. That is a ridiculous amount of trout.

    3,000 trout a day over 365 days a year.... that is 1,095,000 trout kept in the state of Florida per year... yeah bull****.
    Last edited by kellercl; 08-27-2017 at 08:55 AM.

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