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  1. #31
    Senior Member mustang190's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    Let's think about this critically...we have a lure that is between 4 and 6 inches on average...and weighs very little.... and with 2 or 3 sets of "weight" on them...You really don't think that it will make a difference ? ....

    If you have access to a scientific scale ( remember the triple beam balances from chemistry class)...then sure....find a close match...otherwise... you will be changing the balance and action. Remember. some fish are triggered to strike while the lure is "paused".. Trout most notably. How the bait lays while paused....can be greatly effected by only a few grams of weight in the azz end.

    As I said before...Occam's razor....(the SIMPLEST solution..is usually correct) Mash the barbs and all this hook changing is a moot point.
    I'm sure the same was said when circle hooks first came on the scene.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    Let's think about this critically...we have a lure that is between 4 and 6 inches on average...and weighs very little.... and with 2 or 3 sets of "weight" on them...You really don't think that it will make a difference ? ....

    If you have access to a scientific scale ( remember the triple beam balances from chemistry class)...then sure....find a close match...otherwise... you will be changing the balance and action. Remember. some fish are triggered to strike while the lure is "paused".. Trout most notably. How the bait lays while paused....can be greatly effected by only a few grams of weight in the azz end.

    As I said before...Occam's razor....(the SIMPLEST solution..is usually correct) Mash the barbs and all this hook changing is a moot point.
    Scientifically I have to greatly disagree with you there, no offense. By background I am a chemist and have access to calibrated balances that are accurate out to 0.0001 gram. In concept I get what you are saying about slight changes making a difference, but that is based on the idea that when you purchase a 3/8 oz lure (as an example) it is in fact 3/8 oz... it isn't. One day I brought my tacklebox to work and measured the mass of lure after lure. The variation from one mirrodine to another... same with top walkers, silly willy jigs, hooks and even actual weights greatly exceeds what one would expect. I wonder if I still have the file, I even did some covariance calculations.

    Point being sure changing out hooks might alter the lure by 0.5 oz, but that lure varies that much from manufacturing anyway. So the variation is already present and won't be a new addition by changing the hooks. I was rather surprised to be honest, my 1/4 jig heads.... yeah they varied by 1/8 - 1/16 oz even in the same pack. Again, I did this on daily calibrated 10k balances dead accurate out to 0.0001 gram. So I wouldn't put too much faith on a) advertised lure weight b) precision (aka reproducibility) of that advertised weight.

    The hook mass change is well within the natural standard deviation of the lure itself, so there is no statistically significance. I would claim this as my opinion, but really it isn't, facts are facts. Again no offense, I appreciated your comment and views.

    My only real concern is hook up ratio, I worry about missing fish. Having said that I fished this weekend with single hook jigs and greatly preferred the ease of unhooking fish compared to two trebles, so at the very least I am going to experiment with single hooks on hard lures. Either that or stop using $7 hard lures anyway. The $0.50 jigs worked just fine, might as well just save money and use those.

  3. #33
    Senior Member mustang190's Avatar
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    $7? I see them for 15 bucks or more! Imagine watching that redfish swim off with a $15 lure in its mouth.( and you make $19 an hour).

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang190 View Post
    $7? I see them for 15 bucks or more! Imagine watching that redfish swim off with a $15 lure in its mouth.( and you make $19 an hour).
    $7 is Wal mart pricing for any number of hard plastics....and $15 is really nothing when you start talking Yo-Zuri ....look at " Lucky craft" if you want to see pricy stuff... If I lost one...I would probably cry.
    There are many roads to travel
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kellercl View Post
    Scientifically I have to greatly disagree with you there, no offense. By background I am a chemist and have access to calibrated balances that are accurate out to 0.0001 gram. In concept I get what you are saying about slight changes making a difference, but that is based on the idea that when you purchase a 3/8 oz lure (as an example) it is in fact 3/8 oz... it isn't. One day I brought my tacklebox to work and measured the mass of lure after lure. The variation from one mirrodine to another... same with top walkers, silly willy jigs, hooks and even actual weights greatly exceeds what one would expect. I wonder if I still have the file, I even did some covariance calculations.

    Point being sure changing out hooks might alter the lure by 0.5 oz, but that lure varies that much from manufacturing anyway. So the variation is already present and won't be a new addition by changing the hooks. I was rather surprised to be honest, my 1/4 jig heads.... yeah they varied by 1/8 - 1/16 oz even in the same pack. Again, I did this on daily calibrated 10k balances dead accurate out to 0.0001 gram. So I wouldn't put too much faith on a) advertised lure weight b) precision (aka reproducibility) of that advertised weight.

    The hook mass change is well within the natural standard deviation of the lure itself, so there is no statistically significance. I would claim this as my opinion, but really it isn't, facts are facts. Again no offense, I appreciated your comment and views.

    My only real concern is hook up ratio, I worry about missing fish. Having said that I fished this weekend with single hook jigs and greatly preferred the ease of unhooking fish compared to two trebles, so at the very least I am going to experiment with single hooks on hard lures. Either that or stop using $7 hard lures anyway. The $0.50 jigs worked just fine, might as well just save money and use those.
    Fair enough...we can agree...to disagree. In my particular case...changing out to 4X trebles changed the performance enough...to be noticeable.
    While the hook would probably never let me down....the lack of numbers of opportunities for that to happen...was decreased ( sat very azz heavy...which the Trout did not like on pause)


    PS... While I feel a jig & plastic is the #1 lure overall by far ( and way cheaper my a factor of 10) ...sometimes... a noisy popper will out produce a jig by a wide margin...
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckmanJR View Post
    Fair enough...we can agree...to disagree. In my particular case...changing out to 4X trebles changed the performance enough...to be noticeable.
    While the hook would probably never let me down....the lack of numbers of opportunities for that to happen...was decreased ( sat very azz heavy...which the Trout did not like on pause)


    PS... While I feel a jig & plastic is the #1 lure overall by far ( and way cheaper my a factor of 10) ...sometimes... a noisy popper will out produce a jig by a wide margin...
    Certainly I don't plan on giving up my other lures, but I am changing what my "go to" lure is. I am absolutely sold on DoA Cal. It worked great, super cheap, easy to unhook. I just have no complaints. I plan on keeping a few surface walkers, plugs, jerks and stuff just in case. I am also partial to gold spoons, super easy to work and very effective.

    Edit

    I also really like a basic popping cork with a DoA shrimp. Old school basic lures seem to work great. I have no idea how old a gold spoon is at this point in time, but I am still catching nice reds with one.
    Last edited by kellercl; 08-09-2017 at 01:19 PM.

  7. #37
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    I started making my own lures and take the right size hook, hit the eye with a small propane torch for 5 seconds- turns red hot take a pair of plyers and twist the eye around

  8. #38
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    Lots of reasons to go to a single hook. Many which have been mentioned. Albeit hard to believe, a single hook can actually increase your hook up and landing ratio. It takes less pressure to drive a single point into a fish's mouth than it does to drive two or three. All of the power of the hook set is in one point versus spread out over multiple points so the hook drives in deeper. Fish can throw a treble hook easier when shaking their heads, the pressure between the multiple hook points on the treble can be opposing forces. With a single hook there is no such opposing force at work so they hold in the fish far better and are less likely to rip out or be shaken out. Single hooks are also often made of heavier wire thus offering increased durability. Less weeds, safety, ease of release and easier on fish are all good ones to. I have seen the action of the lure change but not drastically and not that frequently, if you see a change try adding an extra split ring or change hook size. Cheers, Tight Lines.

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