This smells like two-day old fish left out on the kitchen counter.
DYING for me was the most HE could do. LIVING for HIM is the least I can do
Agreed... He supposedly shelled out the lease (20K??)... Now you're just reimbursing him?!? Lol. Ok...even IF he actually paid someone to hunt the property, this smacks of a massive profit scam at the best... Fraud seems more likely, though...
These are my back and forth PM's with Jerry who in fact appears as the CEO of a company in Georgia(CEO at Callaway Farms Mfg. Owner at Wildlife Cooperative LLC, Co-Owner at Callaway Outdoors) . He also has been on the GON forum since 2008 that's why I think he is legit but you judge for yourselves
Originally Posted by bow777
I've been hunting for years and no area produces year after year 180-200 class bucks. 3,400 acres isn't big enough to control the caliber of deer you are talking about unless it's a HIGH Fence operation with genetically enhanced deer genes. A 150" minimum also is hilarious because you make it seem as they are around every corner....IT's NOT. So that leaves it for interpretation (since you show no proof) that either it's a scam or you are trying to maintain a lease where people will be flipping the bill for your lease since nothing below 150" can be shot and it would be a lottery ticket to find a 180-200" deer. You also have no regard for mature bucks that are past their prime and will not even meet the minimum and they are considered Trophy by most for obvious reasons.
Another thing is you live in Georgia?? You have no direct control over the quality of the deer. It's pretty simple to see through the smoke screen. I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.
Your condescending tone is uncalled for. And yes you are wrong. It would have been more appropriate to ask for more details before assuming to know so much. Here is the right way to go about it...
YOU: What do you mean that this area regularly produces 180-200" deer.
ME: The farm is in Bates County, an area known to have 180-200" class genetics. Just this year, a 236" buck was killed in Bates County and just a few miles from this farm. The farm has not been hunted since 2014. Even before that, the landowner was extremely selective in what got killed. So buck age structure is above average.
YOU: I interpret your ad to mean there is a 150" buck around every corner.
ME: Sorry you misinterpret the message. This farm is one of the largest contiguous blocks of land in the county, and has had zero hunting pressure for several years. On top of that, the MO state wildlife biologist in that district confirmed the soils type and superior genetics we are looking for to produce 180-200 class bucks. We have made it clear to each member (and candidates who get to the phone interview stage) that it is reasonable to expect 2-3 bucks per year killed among our 6-man group. Roughly 50% success rate is our estimate going into the first year and based on what we know about the farm and surrounding farms.
YOU: Is this high fence?
ME: No. All free range. Fair chase.
YOU: What about killing bucks that are past their prime?
ME: That is a valid question and one we have already discussed. It is agreed that our first year, until we are certain that all six members can accurately field age a buck, there will be no "culling" and no shooting bucks less than 150" no matter how old they may appear. It is my intent to use the first year to learn the farm, learn the herd, and learn the skill level of our members. Primary concern is to protect against "mistake" bucks and to not allow members a "get out of jail card" excuse by claiming they thought he was past prime. Assuming all members prove to have that skill, then we will implement an age-based buck harvest criteria in year two.
YOU: How can you have control if you live in GA?
ME: The landowner is a man of high integrity landowner. He doesn't hunt but wants his land managed. He polices it daily. It is a working farm/ranch. The farm is actively watched 7 days a week including after hours. On top of that, members will be visible throughout the season. Lastly, I have a local caretaker to refill feeders, check stands, maintain the hunting lodge.
YOU: I'm skeptical.
ME: Good for you. I am too. And for good reason after 30+ years a Certified Wildlife Biologist. I develop and manage trophy deer properties based on sound wildlife management principles and practices. I hand pick members with experience in well managed properties. This kind of program is not for everyone. No self-appointed experts or armchair biologists are allowed. No club hoppers. No drama queens. No pot stirrers. No hotheads. We only accept men of integrity who have a long term view and realistic expectations when it comes to killing monster bucks.
YOU: What is the next step if I am considered for membership?
ME: You would receive detailed maps, deer photos, and copy of our management rules. If all parties agree there seems to be a potential fit, then you would be invited to tour the farm and see firsthand what we have. You would also be invited to contact other members and query them about the property and what they know. If you seem like the best candidate, then we would extend the invitation to join. The vetting process eliminates guys who are not the right fit.
Thanks and God bless!
Certified Wildlife Biologist, Forester
Facts says everything. First of all Bates which is in the Kansas City region, is not in the top 3 of back buck producing by region. Its Jackson, Vernon &Clay.
In addition to that, the NE region is the best area for B&C bucks. Out of all the regions, Kansas City is second to last in producing record bucks. Again 180-2oo" is a lotto ticket. I'm just saying, give people realistic expectations if not then post the pics of what has been killed at that ranch. I'm not interested but I feel that you are presenting unrealistic expectations to our fellow hunters. I don't wish to argue, just asking you to reveal the information as if it were to Jesus....... being that we are both Christians. I'm 52 yrs old and have hunted in many places across the US, including Georgia and 150" deer are not everywhere. I have been fortunate enough to have 1 whitetail that scores more than 150" & I will find it very hard to beat or meet that.
Read your post again and see if you think it's realistic? For God's sake, you are still forming this club, how can you claim such numbers when it's your first year.
Just saying what all my years of hunting have taught me
You are reading way too much into the ad. Don't confuse genetic potential with harvest potential. Just because 180-200 class bucks are killed on the farm and in the surrounding area, it doesn't mean every member will kill one. I chose Bates County because it produces 180-200" bucks. I'm not interested in a top 3 county for the same reason I won't lease land in Pike County Illinois. Not going to get in that rat race.
I look for large contiguous blocks of high quality land (soils, habitat, game) with excellent genetics, good neighbors, and landowner willing to work with us long term to continually improve it. The rest is up to us to manage well, hunt smart, and selectively harvest.
We attract guys with similar experience on trophy managed lands. These kind of guys do their homework. They ask good questions. They investigate. They verify. Over 90% of people responding to the ad are tire kickers who get eliminated right away. Several more drop out or get eliminated in the second phase of vetting as we get deeper into rules and harvest expectations. I nixed one who said he would expect to kill two bucks every year. I explained that he has unrealistic expectations and would not be considered for that reason. Better to eliminate that kind of guy up front rather than deal with the problems he would create. Another guy got eliminated because he lives near the property. He knows the area well and had killed some monsters in Bates County. But I don't allow locals to join, as they would hunt way too much and have an unfair advantage over the other members who may only hunt 1-2 times a season. By the last round of vetting, we have whittled it down to only top candidates who have a clear understanding of what kind of program they would be getting into if invited to join. I am a stickler about creating good group chemistry too. So this is the point where I pick the ones that seem most like-minded. Sure don't want to get a guy who doesn't play nice in the sandbox. That is how it works.
So everything we do is above board and thorough. Nobody gets to read the ad and send a check to claim a member spot. All members go through the vetting process so there is clear understanding all the way around. I believe that good communication makes for good friends.
Certified Wildlife Biologist, Forester
Sounds like someone should get a group together, head up to Bates county in MO and hunt the property adjacent to it, no rules..if it's brown it's down WOOWEEE
People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
His silence on this forum speaks volumes! I wouldn't send him postage!
Maybe it's part of "the vetting process"..... You think I have a shot at a membership?
Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway. nj