There Back again, but with a new twist.
January 31, 2010 - 11:26am
In a artical called the "Great Tarpon Debate" the off island guides, that visit Boca Grande to fish for tarpon, are now being called punks. And the BGFGA is now going after the PTTS, and will now seek the doing away with "Tarpon Tags" wich they say will "do away with the tournaments" Since they could not get the support for the "circle hook, snagging defense" they now have to find other B.S to justify, there waste of tax payers monies. They have joined up with new recruits such as the "Tarpon Bonefish nuts". These are the same people who have taken away, anglers rights before, and will continue to do so. I jig fish as many know, I also live bait fish, and it is not about either. The amount of money generated by Tarpon fishing in Florida, is staggering. And the island, and it's guides, are losing it's slice of the pie. That's what this is all about, now we are referred to as punks. This is an argument that needs to be put to rest, but not by limiting the rights of anglers under false pretenses. Hopefully this can be brought to court, in a local court so anyone can go. It should be public, and not closed. So anyone with a voice in the matter, for, or against, can be heard.
This post was modified at January 31, 2010 - 8:22am (EST) by bentrods4u
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In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason to possess a tarpon. I'm all for getting rid of the tarpon tags. If the PTTS wants to have a tournament then make it a leader release tournament.
Tough subject with many opionions for sure. I am of mixed opinion on many tarpon related matters. First, I do not think in any way the PTTS has a negative impact on the fishery. I personally see the crew from PTTS go out of their way to protect the fish once caught and eventually brought to the scale. Unlike other tournaments locally that violate the law season after season this is not the case with the PTTS. Second issue, jig fishing. Jig fishing is done within the law will also not harm the fishery. I do have a problem with a few of the guys I see out their every day (they know who they are) that snag the fish using heavy line and j style hooks. They are easy to pick out, catching double the norm and quickly getting far away from the pack to release their fish as they are hooked under the mouth or neck. True, there are some that are strongly against the jig style of fishing. Old style live bait pass guys clearly are in thinning as technology has left them behind. Sad, but this is the way life works. I think that this unfortunate battle will continue year after year with this shrinking group of disgruntled wooden boat operators. It is no different than the Indians throwing a tantrum when the white man brought guns to hunt. Technology will continue folks.
Lastly, from a statistical standpoint, I have kept track of the actual number of days and hours each tarpon season in BGP. If folks have not noticed, the tarpon fishery for traditional morning and afternoon opportunities has significantly decreased for the past four years. Last year was completely contrary to anything I have documented in the past five years. The migrational patterns were way off, putting the majority of the schools in the harbor and out of the pass by 10am each day and remaining for the remainder. This folks had nothing to do with jig fishing as it has been accused, but what was missing entirely last year???? Crabs. No crabs, no fish. I am half way done with a book I've been writing on SW Florida fishing and this is something I've worked along with Mote and other local Marine Biologists to solve.
Capt. Chris O'Neill
"each tarpon season"
How many "seasons" have you logged? And how many days each "season" are you collecting data? I don't recall seeing you around before 4 years ago and you don't tarpon fish every day, so your data is in accurate.
The lack of crabs this year was probably due to the drought that we had for the past 3 years. Crabs and shrimp need brackish flow from the harbor.
This post was modified at February 1, 2010 - 8:49am (EST) by Blackwater21
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 2:28am (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
I can't wait for the book either.
Same old nonsense, different day.
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
(quote)How many "seasons" have you logged? And how many days each "season" are you collecting data? I don't recall seeing you around before 4 years ago and you don't tarpon fish every day, so your data is in accurate.
The lack of crabs this year was probably due to the drought that we had for the past 3 years. (quote)
Well said Scott..
This post was modified at February 1, 2010 - 9:18am (EST) by Capt. Mike 602
Capt. Mike R. McCarty
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 2:28am (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
Scott,
It must be true Andy agrees with you. Sorry I had too, I will go back to my recliner now.
Capt. Mike R. McCarty
I've said before these arguments are fodder for Peta, et al to close the fishery. They can say even the guides believe certain fishing is bad for the fish, so it must be true.
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.
G. Weilacher
I would say that allowing a "kill tag" is certainly bad for the fish. So yes it is true.
I see what you mean as far as the appearance from the name.
It may be bad for A fish , but it not bad for the fishery. The "kill" tag program is the best thing that ever happened to the Florida tarpon fishery.
The first thing it does is fund tarpon research.
The important thing is it acts as an economic deterrent to throwing the fish in the dumpster after the hero shot.
The tags also allow meeting FWC requirements for temporary possession of a fish so that it can be weighed, and DNA sampled prior to release.
Not all kill tags are used for a kill. Florida's kill tag conservation system is the envy of other states which have no plan or restrictions at all. It is very effective and probable the best conservation tool which relies on the sportsmen to work within its framework. This model program needs to be adopted for consistency among the gulf states.
Every tarpon fisherman needs to buy a kill tag, not to take a fish but to fund FWRIs tarpon research program. Think of it like a snook stamp, where the money collected is dedicated specifically specificlly to that program.
Of course anti-fish and catch and release only zealots will not subscribe to any of this. But that is what conservation is all about.
This post was modified at February 2, 2010 - 10:02am (EST) by Gary S. Colecchio
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
Interesting opinions guys. The word probably suggests lack of information. Considering I pulled off 59 tarpon trips last year, its funny that I wasnt noticed. Maybe there are multiple locations to fish tarpon. Keep watching boys.
Capt. Chris O'Neill
I think the bottom line here is to protect our tarpon fishery. The I / who ran more trips is up there with I can pee farther then you. Oh FYI, I gave away more trips then you ran and there is only a select few in the pass more the Scott.
I personally know you were is the pass quite frequently last year (tailchaser) however, I tend to believe scientific research over opinion.
When did you have the time to research all that information? My tarpon season tends to go something like this.. On water well before daylight fish for 12 hours drive home, clean boat and rig rods, stuff food in my mouth while rigging rods listen to the wife complain about not being home and that the grass is not going to cut it self only to wake and repeat.
There is a lot to be considered with Gary's last post. I for one did not know that and if that is the case will purchase a kill tag.
Capt. Mike R. McCarty
Tail chaser,
I personally don't care how many tarpon trips you ran last year or where you fished for them. You said you have statistics on tarpon in Boca Grande Pass for "every season". By your own admission you only fished for tarpon 59 trips lat year and that you were fishing in "multiple locations". So how would you know what was going on in Boca Grande Pass each day last year let alone years past.
What I have problem with, is someone coming on here, who has already has had a career in something other than fishing and spouting out hypothetical data and self promoting a future book to make themselves look like an expert in the field.
Gary,
I respect you opinion, but your off base on this one. Private funding can fund way more research than the "kill tag" program. One big donor or a large celebrity release tournament with all proceeds going to fund tarpon research rather than payouts to tournament directors and anglers would fund more research the all the tags put together.
Also one can't compare the "snook stamps" to tarpon"kill tags" Anglers only possess "slot" snook for food and tournaments. The trophy sized snook and baby snook are protected. Tarpon have no food value. The only reason to possess a tarpon is for a trophy, bait for sharks or in a tournament.
The FWC does not need a permit to temporarily possess a tarpon because they can get an exemption. The FWC can and does take a small number of over slot and out of season snook for research. They also collect snook by nets which the public is not allowed to do.
Our tarpon fishery in general is the envy of the other states. We have by far the longest season and the most residential tarpon of any other state.
I know many anglers who would gladly pay way more than $50 to go toward funding of the protection and research of tarpon as long as it goes toward that end and not to allow someone to disgrace a formidable opponent like a tarpon as bait for shark fishing.
Let's discuss the abuses of the tarpon "kill tags".
Each time a person possesses a tarpon a "kill tag" is to be permanently fixed to the tarpon's mouth. A new tag must be purchased to possess another tarpon. This is widely abused. I rarely see a tag in a tarpons mouth when I see them being hoisted with a gaff picked up out of the water. I'm sure that most of these captains have one on board but they only buy one and if they were to get checked they would bring it out of the boat and put it in the tarpons mouth. Another way to avoid buying multiple tags is to put the tag in backwards which allows the tag to be removed intact after releasing the tarpon. This tactic was wide spread in the 2006 PTTS in which my team won the Championship. We weighed in 4 tarpon that season and used the same tag for each weighed fish. We were not the only ones doing this, as I had never fished the PTTS and was advised by other teams what to do. I regret being part of that but my job was to catch fish and the other members were in charge of the money.
Near the end of the main Boca Grande Pass tarpon season I see guys each year (who possess tarpon tags which are going to go to waste) give full grown tarpon to shark anglers to use as bait for bull and hammerhead sharks. Talk about making you sick. Using a 20-30 year old tarpon as bait. It's like dragging a dead and defeated warrior though the streets to be spit upon.
That you have a different opinion that doesn't mean that I am "off base".
The Florida kill tag regulatory system is one of the few programs that actually works. I don't disagree that their are better funding mechanisms and don't think that that is the sole source of funding. But it works. FWC is exempt but the rule says that all fish are to be held only as long as it takes to release them. Therefor the tag is "necessary" by anyone else but FWRI, like the PTTS.
Disgrace a fish?
I like tarpon as much as the next guy but c'mon.
Where there is no good reason as far as I'm concerned to kill one, there is no justifiable fisheries related reason ( other than personal opinion , mine included) to preclude anyone from killing one. I am not known for my meekness in opinion, but I am not arrogant enough to demand that everyone employ the same ethic or methods I prefer. We then move into the sort of opinion based management BTT and our friends BGFGA is trying to foist upon recreational fishermen and guides.
Florida's tag system is a success which is not shared by many other programs. As it being a license to kill, I don't think that it really has much impact at all. In fact, the secession of all but one kill tournament format is a testament to fishermen maturing to their own ( and mine) ethic.
I think that fishing ethics needs to be personally developed and not mandated by law. And I have faith that fishermen will continue to rise to that expectation.
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
Great debate guys. I appreciate the concern for the fishery. Most of the guides I come in contact with only care about the money at the end of the day, with no consideration for the fish, fellow guides or recreational anglers. There is nothing wrong at all with discussion, disagreement, and eventually a decision on each of these matters. I think this thing blew way out of proportion and may have been misinterpreted.
FYI, if anyone would like to contribute to "the book" that I'm writing I welcome your input. It is an open forum with many contributors to include Mote Marine Biologists, Financial Advisors, Business Marketing Experts and others that may help "guides" find success at the business end of the guiding job. I in no way attempted to portray myself as some sort of expert in marine biology, but I am smart enough to get the right sources to accurately portray the facts and produce a marketable product. Keep up the fight guys, without everyones stout opinions, we will all get discounted by lawmakers.
Capt. Chris O'Neill
You want to talk about Byron too? We have a few opinions about him also.
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
Concern for the fishery? What have you done? What "work" have you done with Mote? I for one would really like to know.
How do you write a book to help guides find success when you are part time and have been in business less than five years?
How is doing only 59 tarpon trips in one season considered successful?
Gary,
I understand where your comming from. I'm all for self-regulation and less government but when you see abuses of the regulations that are in place I feel I have to do something. I problably see and have my eyes trained to see a lot more of what is going on than the average angler on the water.
Mr. Poodawg - what is your name? Thanks.
Capt. Chris O'Neill
Capt. Mark Bennett
Got it. Thanks.
Capt. Chris O'Neill
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 3:59pm (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 4:00pm (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
This is the never ending debate....
I for one am more concerned with the number of boats and the way that 90% of the anglers "chase" the tarpon all over the pass than I am with the use of the jig. I have noticed a significant change in the behavior of tarpon inside of the pass for the last few years, last year was certainly a eye opener for many. If the tarpon are in fact being chased out of the pass by sunrise than the jig debate has been decided by the tarpon, not a law suite.
Hello, Capt. Chris O'neil, my name is Capt. Sandy Melvin, one of those "Old Style" Boca Grande guides.
Against my better judgement, I can't resist commenting on a couple of your statements. I am only doing this because many people out there won't know what the real deal is if somebody, every now and then, dosen't call out guys like you.
Don't bother responding, I won't be back. I only stopped in because some guys asked my opinion of the Tarpon possession tag issue and said there was some conversation about it here.
This statement of yours caught my attention...
"Old style live bait pass guys clearly are in thinning as technology has left them behind. Sad, but this is the way life works. I think that this unfortunate battle will continue year after year with this shrinking group of disgruntled wooden boat operators. It is no different than the Indians throwing a tantrum when the white man brought guns to hunt. Technology will continue folks. "
The white man did wipe out the buffalo with that unchecked greed and "technology", after all. Was that your point with respect to our tarpon in the Pass?
I've never even heard of you and I've been around over 25 years fishing and guiding in Boca Grande Pass.
What a load of crap you are spouting off about, and you don't know squat. I choose to fish with the "Old Style" method, in an old style boat, because I enjoy it, my clients enjoy it, they are comfortable, and we catch a lot of fish.
Technology has nothing to do with who can catch them and who can't. You'd do well to learn the old saying, "those who can, do, and those who can't, teach" (or write a book).
On my Tarpon boat, I have a 15 year old SiTex Cvs106, just a basic bottom machine. I don't even use a GPS, which many of the "old style" guides do in the Pass these days, because I just don't want one. Somehow, I've managed a pretty successful guiding and tournament career, ask around.
I still use 80lb dacron line and a 100lb fl. carbon leader too, just as I learned with back in the day, because that is the best tackle I've found to land tarpon quickly in the Pass, without great stress, and it allows me to manuever them away from the fleet of boats for the battle so that everyone else can continue to enjoy the fishing.
On my other boats, I have Humminbird 1197c Sidefinders w/GPS mapping, probably the latest, greatest electronic equipment out there. I also have a Blackberry in my pocket, I doubt you can make a case technology has passed me by.
You also said...
"I do not think in any way the PTTS has a negative impact on the fishery"
"Last year was completely contrary to anything I have documented in the past five years. The migrational patterns were way off, putting the majority of the schools in the harbor and out of the pass by 10am each day and remaining for the remainder. This folks had nothing to do with jig fishing as it has been accused..."
Wake up, son, the jigging technique, is harrassing the tarpon to the point that it is changing their pre-spawn behavior in the Pass. People with real experience believe that can't be good for the future.
Capt. Sandy Melvin http://GasparillaOutfitters.com
Bentrods
This thread was started in regards to tarpon"kill tags" It has nothing to do with jig fishing. If you want to debate jig fishing, start another thread.
This post was modified at February 3, 2010 - 8:36pm (EST) by Blackwater21
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 2:27am (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
You keep saying that.
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
My only post on this forum was in regards to the tarpon fishery, I am just not a great debater of opinion so I try to stay away from what is certainty view points and opinions but here I am. Sorry for this post to be long winded but it is in all likely hood my only post on the matter.
As for the kill tag. It was never introduced for scientific purpose. It was originally introduced and I will contend to this day still a trophy kill tag only. There was a brief period of history where the tag was used for recapture data, but any one who believes that it still servers a scientific purpose should Know that the State now use's DNA Sampling. The DNA sample is 100% accurate for a recaptured tarpon so the argument for a tag is mute unless your intent is to kill a tarpon.
The tag itself is flawed for research by the FWC's on admission. And below You will find a quote taken directly from The FWC tarpon research web site located at http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=26602
Quote
"How do we genetically sample a tarpon? A small sample of skin cells is all we need. We no longer need to place an external plastic or wire tag onto the fish that can fall off, break, or get covered in algae beyond recognition. A tarpon's DNA provides a natural tag of sorts that lasts as long as the tarpon is alive and a tarpon can live over 60 years."
Unquote
Another interesting fact is that you do not need the tag to collect this research so that certainty makes the tag only useful as its original intent "trophy kill tag"
Below another quote taken from http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=26602
Quote
"These skin cell samples are relatively easy to take and do not harm the fish. A tarpon can be left in the water while taking the sample right at the side of the boat, so no possession tag is required to participate in this program. Each sample is processed at the FWRI laboratory in St. Petersburg for less than $3 each to give a unique DNA "fingerprint" for an individual tarpon. The technology allows FWRI biologists to identify individual tarpon with the odds of an error at less than one in a billion (1:1,000,000,000). In fact, FWRI scientists have already verified that 36 tarpon were recaptured since the program started in 2005."
Unquote
You also would not be required a tag to photo a tarpon you have caught as long as you follow the above "pictured, right at the side of the boat". A tag would be required if said tarpon where to be lifted out of the water, and as we now know, lifting a fish of this size can and will do damage. Leaving the only reason for a tag, a trophy, via a tournament or other means of beating your chest. I also will add that in the 2009 PTTS the tags that where used for tournament purpose, where removed from the tarpons mouth at the weigh station via instruction of the tournament director, so said tags served no other purpose, but possession for that tarpon for weigh in. And as for tournaments, I have participated in the PTTS every year since it began, and I challenge the PTTS to become a most releases tournament. I will still be a top contender, including using valuable tournament time to collect a DNA sample: it will be quicker and less harmful than weighing the fish.
I also go on the record that I fully support a Catch And Release Only Tarpon Fishery "no harvest allowed" , simply because there is no value to dead tarpon, if you could eat it, its debatable. So a no possession law would be a win win for everyone. For record seekers I would add that the IFGA could, and should, institute a measuring formula by which records could be attained via length and girth. For the naysayer the IFGA is a private organization that has and always will make their own guidelines, and they could apply this method to not only tarpon but the snook as well if they chose.
In the tough economic time that everyone now faces, do we need to have the county/state sell tags that certainty cost more to produce and administer paperwork that goes along with that tag, to support the minuscule percentage of anglers seeking to acquire a trophy or bragging rights ( including my own)? Its your tax collectors office in all counties across the sate that bear the cost of the tags, that I would be willing to bet are used mainly in Boca Grande.
This post was modified at February 4, 2010 - 12:41pm (EST) by GoFishCharters
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
I don't think anyone claimed that kill tags play any research role aside from allowing the fish to be handled and weighed. I would think that weighing would be a good parameter to measure. But what do I know?
As far as the PTTS goes , I personally think that the measure of a good fishermen is the number of fish released rather than the luck in catching the biggest one. But I can see how the current format makes for better TV. That said I like the inclusion of the tags in the PTTS. It's just some extra cash that goes to FWRI, which sorely needs it. To me it is at least one way the competitors can put something (cash) into fisheries research.
As far as I know county tax collectors simply act as distribution points, since stocking the local Wallmart would be impractcal. In any case I think the argument that it costs the tax collector money to produce them isn't much of one. They certainly do not cost $50 a piece to make or handle.
But if that is what you are concerned about, how about increasing it to $100?
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
Looks to me that you said that it funded research see the part in your quote "the first thing it does is fund research"
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
Gary
Are you saying that while I am at the county office buying my tarpon tag that there is no cost to the county? I sit in front of a county worker for about 20 mins to issue what appears to me to be a very expensive zip tie tag, there is also a printed piece of paper that goes along with that tag that must be filled out and mailed back, it has prepaid postage. That it cost the county or the state is no difference to me its, all taxpayer money. Maybe you should contact the state and find out just how cost effective that is, I'll bet the tags cost more to produce than they get in sales revenue especially since, what Blackwater21 said earlier was exact; most everybody reused a tag in those tournaments and where encouraged by other tournament anglers to do so.
Considering the information in my previous post, a free sample taken from a angler is sent to be processed for $3 sounds more cost effective to me. And by the way the PTTS weighed 52 tarpon in 2009 and since they supposedly collected the tags so no one could reuse them that amounted to $2600.00, how much do you think actually made it to research? I also am willing to bet that way more are made than are sold so more cost.
The original tag at a cost of $50 was supposed to protect tarpon by placing a fee associated with killing one. Seems to me that is a small bounty on a tarpons head. Looks as if your value is only about a $100 why not make it $1000 and really collect some money.
Are we to place a value on killing a trophy to get money to protect a trophy. That does not sound like protection to me, and the tarpon is worth protecting and a TV show is not.
This post was modified at February 4, 2010 - 1:43pm (EST) by GoFishCharters
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
I'm saying the money goes to tarpon research. You said that I said that the tag provided a research tool which I didn't say.
I'm saying that FWRI makes money on each tag sold.
I'm saying that a used tag does not represent a dead fish.
I'm also calling you a cheap ******* for whining about paying $50 bucks to the state for each fish you weigh in the PTTS. ;) Think of it as a very cheap cost of doing business and giving something back to the resource which you are profiting from with otherwise no investment in besides your equipment.
Can we find another funding mechanism to raise money for Guindon's crew? Sure. How about a tarpon stamp? (How's that Kathy?) Say another $10 endorsement on your licence. Or how about a Tarpon license plate like the Save the Manatee tags? The tax collector doesn't lose any money from selling those.
By not funding them adequately, you make the FWRI vulnerable to the sort of agenda driven "science" that Ault and Adams are trying to foist on us. That can't be good. See, I got us back on topic.
This post was modified at February 4, 2010 - 2:56pm (EST) by Gary S. Colecchio
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
Gary you said it I did not
But what I did say was make it a $1000 and collect some real money
I agree 100% tarpon stamp, and I already bought a tag for my truck, it's Fish Florida Tag for a Commercial Heavy Duty truck cost me about $200 for a year, and I do support Kathy. As for my otherwise investment my company owns 2 new boats worth over 100k owns said truck above less than 3 years old 50k and about 40k in tackle so its hardly a minuscule investment. You are not bantering with another imposter fishing guide, that have just about over run SW Fl. I involved my self only twice on this forum and both times the tarpon was the issue. And the $10 endorsement is chump change it should be much higher and while you have me ranting the state should charge every tournament a permit fee, lets say 10% of the entry that would bring in $5000 a week from the PTTS alone, seems to me these tournaments don't pay anything. Also take the small $200 for year fishing license to fish with me has a guide, the state should charge a guide a research fee endorsement and/or raise that fee. Better yet do what they did with freshwater and require every person to get their own license plus my requirement.
So I guess that does not make me what you call me in that Quote below.
You want to get nasty google my business and you will find my home address and then you come quote that to me personally.
This post was modified at February 4, 2010 - 3:20pm (EST) by GoFishCharters
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
I don't really know all that much about the tarpon fishery or issues being discussed ... but I sure like your idea below.
I have a Tampa Bay Estuary tag (because it has a tarpon on it) , 2 boat registrations, two houses (both with docks I paid far too much for) that I pay tax on, Florida resident saltwater and 4 pack FWC licenses, and all my crap including 4 grand in flyrods. So what?
What do you pay for the fishery you exploit to make a living, except for the tags? Nothing/ nada /zilch / zero. It just happens to be there. Look, I'm not busting your balls here and I think we agree more than we disagree.
There really needs to be a funding source to ensure that Kathy can do a better job at what she does and defend us from BTT. The only thing we have now is the tag system. The Beach Club tried to give her money but the state can't take private donations specific to a use. And BTT is using their NGO status and private wealth to make their own policy which I will guarantee you will bite us and the dimwitted BGFGA intheass.
So the first thing that needs to be done before we "save the tarpon" is save the FWRI people who save them for us.
This post was modified at February 4, 2010 - 5:18pm (EST) by Gary S. Colecchio
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
The tarpon issue is very complex.
I appreciate your support in finding a source of untapped revenue to fund research. Spread the word it could be a windfall for the great research that people like Kathy and others do.
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
Gary you did attack me and I did not put up my business assets to impress anyone you acted as if it my only investment and that it may somehow be insufficient.
Personally I pay the same as you do to exploit the fishery.
Only difference is as a Guide I spend thousands to insure, that in order for me to make a legal living as a guide, that my paying clients come to my area which happens to Boca Grande. Many did not happen upon this area alone, some would have went to Costa Rica, Puerto Rico or other countries where you can catch a tarpon. Those people in turn generate huge amounts of money for not only the local economy but the states economy as well. I don't even know why I am explaining this to you Gary you should know.
I am not an ego fishing guide I am a regular guy struggling to make a living. I get up put my fishing pants on the same as everybody, I claim no extra rights for myself as a guide, and want no special privileges, I am not better than anyone. The guide industry is the most unregulated industry I know of and because we have no bar or binding regulatory system in place it leaves a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth towards guides including my own. Doesn't keep them from wanting all the information about fishing they can get via forums like this one, then I am begrudged a living on the resource.
My service is simple and you wont make feel guilty. I take people fishing that would not be able to since they are visiting, get them to stay in my area, eat at my area restaurants, and spend their money in my areas stores, and convince them to come back and do it again. I am also not foolish enough to think that money could not find its way here with out me, but believe me I play a big part in it happening. I don't see any co-op money coming to the fishing guide from those benefiting eateries or hotels or any other established business to defray any of my cost. And personally I usually overlook the you rape the resource comment considering the above, so when you quite busting my balls I let it go, and here his my address in case you could not find it 7755 Riverside Dr Punta Gorda.
As for the funding and I wont take credit for it, I been hearing it now for years, tournament permit fees are a untapped source of income. As well as any reasonable additional fees to guide licensing requirement that goes to funding research.
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 2:25am (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
I never accused you of raping the resource. Just that investing in boats and equipment entitles you to nothing more or less than everyone else as far as the fishery is concerned. But I did say busting your balls was not my intention.
And please don't threaten me. It's not very nice.
This post was modified at February 4, 2010 - 7:21pm (EST) by Gary S. Colecchio
"If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio
"Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick
Mr. Melvin, In hindsight, I believe I was out of line with my comments regarding Old Style Boca Grande Guides. In the heat of the moment, things are sometimes said that are eventually regretted. In this case, I regret it and apologize. I do not know you either. Yes as the story is told by many, I have only lived here five years.... Guilty as charged. I won't waste anyones time on this thread explaining my history, as it is not relevant. I invite you to tune me in this week fishing with Mark Sosin on his show or any of the other 7 different TV shows I filmed in 2009 that will air in 2010 around the globe. Or you can pick up a copy of Coastal Angler Magazine in which I co-own and am the Senior Guide and Outdoor Writer (this is the Florida's largest outdoor publication). If that doesnt work, tune in my radio show Reel Saltwater Outdoors which airs six days a week on FM 107.5 or AM 1530 and at last ratings, is the #1 rated fishing radio show in the area. If you like to fish topwater baits, pick up the Bomber Saltwater Grade Badonk-A-Donk lure in which I personally designed, tested and fielded. It is and remains the largest selling topwater bait on the planet since inception a year ago. I am one of the only five pro staff for Bomber Saltwater Grade lures. I am also one of the only five pro staff for Fin Nor rods/reels. Some have claimed that I am a "part timer", and I personally repied "if I'm working my tail off doing all of the above and I'm a part timer....WOW. Mr. Melvin, my intention of mentioning the above is not to sound my own horn, I only wanted to let you know that I do exist and work hard at the fishing business. It's true many do not know me, and that is by design. Only one of my boats has my name on it and that will be removed on the next wrap. Unlike some may think, I have no agendas or vendetta's against others. I like all of you on the forum, am a hard working guide that is just trying to make a living. Again, I spoke out of context about Old Style Boca Grande Guides and regret it.
Capt. Chris O'Neill
Why is it that you both totally over look the untapped funds that could come from a permit fee on tournaments? Since tarpon is the main focus, I pointed out a tournament series that could generate a huge revenue. And since one of you seem to believe that I exploit the fishery what do you say about the tournaments, is that not exploitation? or will you come up with a fancy answer and twist my words to you liking, maybe read some thing that no one else sees in between the lines I wrote or better yet just plain say you never said I exploit the fishery. I am bored of that it servers no purpose except for getting off topic maybe that is what you want. And for the record I made no threat, to no one, I simply pointed out the fact that if you want to talk that way to me man up and do it face to face. I came into this thread to give my view point on a tarpon kill tag.
The stamp is a great especially if it gets rid of a kill tag, so I will say it again I would fully support a no harvest, no kill, no possession, catch and release only tarpon fishery and I will gladly pay what ever for a stamp that makes that happen.
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 2:22am (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
I appreciate your candor about me.
I would like to point something out If BTT (a non profit ) in your view as a research group is a joke and is dangerous, how dangerous do think making a private owned tournament (for profit) is to being the vehicle to tarpon research.
And for the record the State, as in Kathy can and does weigh fish any time they chose to do so. I have personally given her more tarpon outside a tournament than what she got from me in a tournament. She came boat side asked for the tarpon I gave it to her, she needed no tag, and she proceeded to weigh and record the information. By the way she came out on the water and weighed the fish boat side, it is a lot less stressful on a tarpon, than the many out of the 52 the PTTS gave here, that where gaffed in the mouth, a rope tied through its mouth, and dragged any where from a 1/2 to some over 2 miles to the beach and weighed. Wouldn't you agree?
Now the PTTS let here get information on 52 fish over a six week period. I say with the funds from a stamp, that I am willing to pay my share for, she can come out and retrieve 52 tarpon from anglers not in a tournament in less time. So I don't see any reason why anyone would want to propel a tournament into the research arena, especially tarpon, given the unflattering facts on just how they arrive at the weigh station, which is why you need a kill tag in case the fish dies.
And for the record if the PTTS will not go to a catch and release format I will no longer participate. I will also go on record and say the BGFGA should do the same with their tournaments, since the same method of getting a fish to beach applies to them as well, and it looks to me as if that is what they are intending to do.
So as you agree it makes the tag obsolete. There are no rights to lose here other than fishing in a tournament that could easily switch to Catch And Release.
Capt Andy Boyette GoFishCharters.com TarponCharters.com
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This post was modified at February 9, 2010 - 2:20am (EST) by bentrods4u
Capt Andrew Medina WWW.fishfloridatarpon.com
Tools should be kept in a shed, not on a forum!!!!
I would guess that 90% of the tarpon tags that are sold are being used in the PTTS. I agree with Go Fish (Andy) and would like to see tournaments have to pay a fee in order to host a tournament. I have been saying that for years, tournaments exploit the fishery more than any single guide can. Lets be honest here, having a tarpon kill tag does not put the fishery in danger at all. The only reason to have the kill tag is to facilitate tarpon tournaments.
Kathy and her crew do an outstanding job, i'm sure they are way underfunded and when it comes to budget cuts at the state level they get hit hard. I have donated many tarpon to them. Anytime Kathy ask me to help her with a project I never hesitate. Last time I worked on a project with her was December of 2007 when I donated 4 or 5 live tarpon to her that were caught in Boca Grande Pass. I feel I have a obligation as a guide to support her science. If anyone ever has the chance to donate their tarpon to Kathy or her crew please do it, you do not need a tarpon tag when you help her crew out.
double post
This post was modified at February 5, 2010 - 10:29am (EST) by doubledUP