Braid for backing?

tj5485tj5485 Posts: 139 Officer
What do you guys use for backing? I saw on the Hatch website, they recommend Daiwa Boat Braid. Anyone use this before? Also, When the Manufactures list the yards for amount of backing that can be used...Is that for gel spun im assuming? The boat braid is very thin, I could see that there could be a few nice advantages by using it.

Replies

  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,201 Captain
    Daiwa boat braid is simply spectra that has been color coded to let you know how much you have out there, it changes color every 10yds. Most manufacturers list the capacity of their reels based on dacron, some list capacities in gel spun and dacron. There are quite a few advantages to using spectra, but there are a handfull of anglers out there with an irrational fear of losing a didget, though in all my years I've never met an angler stupid enough to grab spectra/dacron on a running fish. Use what you like, but should you decide to use spectra be sure to have your reel spooled up under extreme tension to prevent digging/binding.
  • tj5485tj5485 Posts: 139 Officer
    I've used the same braid on my jigging rods. But never heard of anyone using it for backing. Makes sense about the spooling tho. Has to be tight
  • Permit RatPermit Rat Posts: 2,282 Captain
    I still use Cortland Micron. Much easier on the hands and it easily lasts as long as the modern braids.
    .......Rick
  • mtd885mtd885 Posts: 1,159 Officer
    I've got 65# PowerPro on my Tarpon reels.
  • acesoveracesover Posts: 552 Officer
    Is there a reason why you have the 65lb Power Pro? I mean, isn't that stonger than you fly line? Just wondering, not trying to stir the pot, just curious.
    FYIWFG
  • mtd885mtd885 Posts: 1,159 Officer
    acesover wrote: »
    Is there a reason why you have the 65lb Power Pro? I mean, isn't that stonger than you fly line? Just wondering, not trying to stir the pot, just curious.

    Someone on another board did some tests with knots and found that the lighter/thinner braid would cut through mono/fluoro loop while the 65# did not. I put a bimini on the braid side then a triple surgeons knot so there are 4 strands going to my butt section.
  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    mtd885 wrote: »
    Someone on another board did some tests with knots and found that the lighter/thinner braid would cut through mono/fluoro loop while the 65# did not. I put a bimini on the braid side then a triple surgeons knot so there are 4 strands going to my butt section.


    Michal
  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    mtd885 wrote: »
    Someone on another board did some tests with knots and found that the lighter/thinner braid would cut through mono/fluoro loop while the 65# did not. I put a bimini on the braid side then a triple surgeons knot so there are 4 strands going to my butt section.


    Michael,

    I use #500 yards of #50 Power Pro on all my Super 12 Abel reels, I use to ask the late Bill Nash about the Power Pro cutting through the braided loops on the end of my fly lines, his answer was "it will never happen" So far he was right, also I stopped using the bimini in Power Pro in favor of the triple surgeons loop (6 times through) No matter how many twists you use in the bimini the triple surgeons is stronger, this was proven by Lefty Krea, after you make the triple surgeons loop then make a double overhand knot (twice through) and now you have a double line going through the braided loop. happy fishing.

    Carl Blackledge
  • mtd885mtd885 Posts: 1,159 Officer
    Michael,

    I use #500 yards of #50 Power Pro on all my Super 12 Abel reels, I use to ask the late Bill Nash about the Power Pro cutting through the braided loops on the end of my fly lines, his answer was "it will never happen" So far he was right, also I stopped using the bimini in Power Pro in favor of the triple surgeons loop (6 times through) No matter how many twists you use in the bimini the triple surgeons is stronger, this was proven by Lefty Krea, after you make the triple surgeons loop then make a double overhand knot (twice through) and now you have a double line going through the braided loop. happy fishing.

    I know I'm getting old but I think it was Bill that wrote that 50# was minimum to prevent cut offs which is why I went to 65# just to make sure. He was one of our California treasures. I miss his posts on Dan's board. Thanks for the heads up on the bimini. I'm all for the KISS principle. Travel safe, maybe we'll catch up at Striperfest this year...m
  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    The other thing you can do is use Max's coaxial cable loop Its 100% in Power Pro.

    Carl
  • Capt. ScottCapt. Scott Posts: 94 Greenhorn
    Dacron will 1) be softer on the hands while reeling/leveling onto reel under tension,(leveling a couple hundred yards of gelspun will slice right through b-ball gloves), 2) give you plenty of capacity on everything, except medium/large tuna and/or billfish which can dump 400 yrds+, 3) be considerably more affordable, if that is a factor, 4) be much easier to remove tangles out of, 5) causes more drag in the water to tire fish out, 6) This my own personal take on it...which may or may not be influenced by how many margarita's I've had....
    Recently I have also learned that gel spun will cut through fly line much quicker than dacron. If you and a buddy are doubled up and the fish get wrapped up during the fight, somebodies fly line is going bye-bye....This may be more of a concern for me due to doubles, triples and quads are fairly normal on dolphin, albies, kings, jacks etc.
  • Kevin KellyKevin Kelly Posts: 84 Deckhand
    I don't fish for big tuna or billfish, so my comments have nothing to do with them, but beyond those species, how much backing capacity do you really need? What fish are running that far? Lefty has always been suspicious of people's claims about the initial runs of saltwater fish and thinks they are great exaggerated. I got close to being spooled once by a false albacore at Harker's Island but that was because of three factors - 1) it was a big albie, 2) i was using a 9 wt rod, and (most of all) 3) i didn't know how to pressure a fast-moving fish properly at that point. I think for the vast majority of saltwater fly fishing 30lb Dacron is more than adequate, easier to knot, and kinder to your fingers. I do, however, usually upsize my reels - 10 wt reel on 8 wt rod, 12 wt reel on 10 wt rod, etc.
  • clampmanclampman Posts: 130 Officer
    Braid for backing? What do you guys use for backing?

    AJ,

    Nearly everyone uses "braid" for backing. Braid is a generic term used to describe the method of interlacing fibers to create things from sewing thread and rugs to fishing lines and ropes. All fishing line I've seen other than single strand monofilament is "braid".

    All the dacron trolling lines are "braid" and most are hollow as well nowadays -at least that I've seen.

    Line made from "spectra" (gel spun) fibers are either solid or hollow. The hollow variety can be "blind" spliced together or into loops for 100% connections without knots just as dacron braid or whatever Cortland Micron is made from can be.

    So you have to check each manufacturer to find out what the "braid" is made from.

    I use cheap dacron trolling braid on some reels and comparatively expensive Jerry Brown hollow braid made of spectra fibers on other reels. The advantage of the latter is more backing capacity at the same lb test rating in the same space on the spool.

    Cheers,
    Jim
  • Permit RatPermit Rat Posts: 2,282 Captain
    Dacron will 1) be softer on the hands while reeling/leveling onto reel under tension,(leveling a couple hundred yards of gelspun will slice right through b-ball gloves), 2) give you plenty of capacity on everything, except medium/large tuna and/or billfish which can dump 400 yrds+, 3) be considerably more affordable, if that is a factor, 4) be much easier to remove tangles out of, 5) causes more drag in the water to tire fish out, 6) This my own personal take on it...which may or may not be influenced by how many margarita's I've had....
    Recently I have also learned that gel spun will cut through fly line much quicker than dacron. If you and a buddy are doubled up and the fish get wrapped up during the fight, somebodies fly line is going bye-bye....This may be more of a concern for me due to doubles, triples and quads are fairly normal on dolphin, albies, kings, jacks etc.

    Thank-you Capt. Scott. It must have been the margaritas that precluded me from remembering all the reasons why I still prefer Micron/Dacron :wink the same as you.

    All I would say is that, anyone who fishes/wants to fish for big tuna, should invest in the appropriate reel. In my day, these would be the Emery, large Catino, or the Penn International IV. Also back in those days,
    the only "braids" available, were Dacron or Micron. Manufacturers listed their backing capacities in DACRON (450 yds., 30 lb.) but most all serious fishermen used 30 lb.Micron. So the capacities of all those reels was 550 yds. of Micron ...PLUS a FULL 12 wt. flyline! Now--No one uses a full fly line for tuna, so there is even more capacity for backing. Moral: no need for fancy braids here, either.

    Kevin, IMO Lefty is exactly right. I think that these "distances" were perceived back in the 60's and 70's, by outdoor writers who had NO concept of distance over water. But, it made their articles more exciting and appealing to the readers, so....

    For example, countless Pacific sailfish weighing in excess of 100 lbs, have been caught on the old Fin Nor #3 wedding cakes and Seamaster Mk. III's of the same size. Not to mention all the 100+ lb. tarpon that have been caught on those same reels. It all has to do with the species of the fish and what they do when hooked. For example, if big tarpon and Pacific sailfish did not jump, chances are we'd be using much larger capacity reels to catch them.

    Finally....kudos for learning how to pressure fish on a fly rod and just how much pressure all of your fly rods can handle. Everyone should do this and know as well. Take a 12 wt. fly rod some time and with a hand scale, try to pull just 15 lbs. (Properly done, most upper end rods will handle this much pressure) You'll probably never use a 20 lb. tippet again.
    .......Rick

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