Stator failure?

loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
Stator peak voltages (using DVA) as follows at stbd connector at power pack.

Brown - Brown/Yellow = 160v
Brown/White - Brown/Black = 129v
Orange - Orange/Black = 60v

Looks like one of the charge coils is toast...yes?
Would a low charge coil stop her from firing, or would it only affect the spark on one bank?
Join Date: March 2001
Member #813

Replies

  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    What are the service manual output specs? One weak charge coil can affect a bank of cylinders.
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    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


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  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    According to the manual:
    The power coil is within spec.
    One charge coil is within spec and the other charge coil is not.
    My expectation would be fire on one bank only, but I have no fire at all.

    Update:
    Ohmmeter test showed .553 K-Ohms on the charge coils and 55 Ohms on the power coil. Once I brushed up on my metric it's clear those readings are good for both charge coils and the power coil. So, can anything else, maybe the regulator/rectifier cause the low voltage output on the charge coil?
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    Aggggh, this thing is kicking my butt. Seems like everything I test gives me an out of spec reading, then I re-test it and I get a good, in spec reading.

    I re-read the manual on the stator output tests and did them over, making sure my test leads are right where they are supposed to be and lo and behold I get good output readings from the stator. I'm going to pronounce the stator "good" and save myself $300 worth of cursing over a non-returnable electrical part.

    I also tested the shift interrupter. It is open..no continuity when I press the plunger. The switch is bad. However, this should not prevent spark at start up...only during shifting when it shuts down one bank of cylinders. This switch is indeed bad, but it's not causing a no-spark condition on all six cylinders.

    What about the optical eye. No test for this sensor, but it seems to be the only path left.
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    The eye and/or the pack could be the culprit. If it is the pack, replace the eye also.

    The tester for the eye is over $400 to check a $75 electric eye part. The quickest test is just put in a new one.

    Don't overlook a problem in the black/yellow "kill" circuit. When the key is turned off or the safety switch (kill switch) lanyard pulled, the black/yellow grounds out the capacitor inside the pack to stop the motor. That wire "contains" around 300-400 volts when the motor is running and can short out easily, especially in saltwater.
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    I disconnected the port side power pack connector and still did not have spark. I then set my voltmeter to Ohms and checked the black/yellow to see if it was shorted to ground. It's not.

    Power pack is new. Yeah, I jumped a little early on that.
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    Fixed.

    I replaced the optical sensor this morning and the motor fired...on one bank only. Cylinders 1, 3 and 5 still had no spark. I checked the stop circuit and the shift interrupter and those were good. I then checked the stator output for the charge coil that powers the odd cylinders and that was good. I had already installed a brand new CDI power pack the day before yesterday, so I'm proceeding on the assumption that it is a good unit. Finally, I reinstall the original, 14-year-old power pack and "bam", she lights off instantly.
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    From your description the CDI pack is faulty or there is a connector problem. Call the 800# for CDI, they are great people with good support and warrany policies.

    IF you get a rep named Clark Beard on the phone, tell him you know Bluewater Bill. He is a very sharp good-ole-boy from AL that has been with CDI almost since it first came about.
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    She runs good with the old pack, so I have to believe the root cause was the optical sensor. I'll ship CDI the pack and let them repair, exhange or otherwise handle it under warranty. I like some of the features of the CDI, so I'd like to use it.
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    just when I thought this issue was resolved...

    I sent the CDI pack back to the manufacturer and they said it tested “good”. CDI even went so far as to install in on an outboard just to make sure. They said it might be a charge coil on the stator going bad or perhaps a loose terminal at the stator-to-power pack connector. I measured good voltage coming off the stator’s charge coils, so I am reasonably certain it is working as designed. I will also check the integrity of the connector.

    Why would the motor run fine with the original, 15-year-old pack, but only runs on the even cylinders with a brand new CDI pack?
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    Wow, that is quite a story about the new pack. My guess would also be a connection problem, but perhaps the new pack may not be as sensitive to the stator voltage or the triggering voltage as the old pack. A lower stator output that was still in spec could keep one bank of the pack from firing. You would need a ‘scope to watch the voltage waveforms going into the pack. Can’t remember which side of your motor that the shift switch cuts out – they changed over the years – so unplug it and remove the ground terminal and see if spark returns. Any resistance through the shift switch could lower or bleed off the internal voltage for the one bank.

    Can you fabricate a way to swap the 2 stator charge coil leads to see if one side follows with no-spark? Those will be the brown and/or brown-and-stripe wires from the stator. Bottom line, it's probably the stator - as you know, components can check good but not work correctly and the one charge coil is lower than the other.

    If you pull the flywheel, I'll bet you will find a puddle of melted insulation under at least on charge coil. That means someone had wing nuts or loose battery connections that affected the regulator and that in turn overheated the stator to the point of melting plastic.
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    Billgran wrote: »

    If you pull the flywheel, I'll bet you will find a puddle of melted insulation under at least one charge coil. That means someone had wing nuts or loose battery connections that affected the regulator and that in turn overheated the stator to the point of melting plastic.

    011.jpg

    And that's exactly what I found this morning when I installed the new stator. Imagine my surprise when I cranked the engine and had no fire out of the CDI power pack. Once again, I reinstalled the original power pack and the motor starts and runs flawlessly. The $250 question.... Is the CDI pack bad, or is there something else going on in my electrical system that is causing the CDI pack not to light off? Any suggestions on what to check?

    P.S On the bright side, I have disassembled this thing so many times I can easily beat the flat rate R&R time.
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    If you installed a CDI stator (yep, your old one looks like I suspected) and the new CDI pack does not work, it would be worth a phone call to them. Ask for Clark if you can. What is the output on the new stator compared to the original one?
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • loose_cannonloose_cannon Posts: 592 Officer
    I haven't measured the output from the new stator, yet. That's a good idea. That way I have a baseline measurment for future reference should I (god forbid) have another problem.
    Join Date: March 2001
    Member #813
  • Lagoon AnglerLagoon Angler Posts: 114 Officer
    Had a bad Stator on my 2010 E Tec last year, caught the motor on fire..... REAL fun when your a couple miles away from the ramp.
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    I've never seen a stator catch on fire, they consist of only a steel frame with copper wires with small plastic guides on an E-TEC.

    Do you have any pictures, by chance?

    Fire is no fun when you are out on the water, or anywhere for that matter.
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • Lagoon AnglerLagoon Angler Posts: 114 Officer
    Sure do! These are the pics I took when I got to my techs shop and for insurance. The tech and insurance company ruled that the stator caused the fire. Complete loss, four E TURDS in six years.
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    *
    *

    The fire was nowhere near the stator. The stator is under the flywheel.

    It looks like there was a fuel leak that got ignited around the stb. lower aft of the motor. The flames curled up and melted the plastic thermostat cover and 2 of the oil lines. My guess is something chafed or damaged the pressurized fuel hose in that area, an injector fitting leaked, or the fuel pump leaked and the spray was ignited by the ignition coils or wires.

    Like I said before, you were very lucky, and a fire on the water can ruin your whole day.
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • Lagoon AnglerLagoon Angler Posts: 114 Officer
    The stator failed and created a electrical fire. Not a gas fire. My tech ripped that motor apart to find the stator had failed. The fuel lines and oil lines were melted. The fuel line was not burnt all the way through, close but not all the way. The point is these motors suck in every way possible!
  • BillgranBillgran Posts: 331 Deckhand
    Still doesn't sound quite right. With the stator mounted under the flywheel and no heat or flame damage showing through the flywheel vents, plus the stator wires come off the port side of the block and go directly to the EMM, none of those electrical items are anywhere near the pictured burned areas.
    *****************************************


    "There is never just one thing wrong with a boat"
    --- Travis McGee


    ******************************************
  • Ceena JohnCeena John Posts: 5 Greenhorn
    Stator failure provide us a lot of motivation for future growth so we will be remind any perspectives and get clear direction in any stage so be happy for bright direction and learn about failures.
    Ceena John
  • krummy1krummy1 Posts: 1 Greenhorn
    Because it is a 15yr old motor in salt water, too many likely problems to list. CDI is awesome, so I belive you need to look further into your engine. All connections stator and grounds, follow the manual from start to scratch. good luck , bill

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