IRL Water Condition Sebastian Area?

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  • truculenitytruculenity Posts: 42 Greenhorn
    edited March 12 #32
    how many of us fisherman have reported these blooms to the DEP's website? may be the only way to get action by filling these out everytime we witness this crap in our waterways...

    https://floridadep.gov/dear/algal-bloom




  • bostonsox2904bostonsox2904 Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    Perhaps I came on board too late but what Huntinthewild wrote seems solid and sound.  I'm not implying that answers to those questions are missing I just can't seem to find a link to spacially and temporally linked data from analysis of lagoon water.
    To run with Huntnthewild's theme for example:
    Are there data showing N and P levels in September?  
    Are there data collected at the same locations just after Irma when water was highest?
    How do they compare?  How do those data compare to samples collected/ananlyzed after water levels normalized?
    Is FIT working in that direction?  
     Topwater: was the $50M to come from the 1/2% tax?  What reason was given for not passing the bill?
    Names of the yeas and nays?
    Call them!  They work for us.
     

    I see the rangers at Apollo Beach south of NSB pulling water samples every so often. Maybe they have some data for the north lagoon
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    Duckman - any reason given for nixing the $50 restoration project?
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    Mea Culpa - last week I wrote that there were NO septic tanks in CB.  I was in error.  There are 3 septic tanks in CB.  None, I'm told, are of any real consequence to the plague in our river.

    seawoods and huntin the wild  make great points.  Some of these data do not make sense.  And my sole reason for questioning is from a concern that tax/restoration money is spent in a way that yields a measurable ROI.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG
    Duckman - any reason given for nixing the $50 restoration project?
    Sorry....been out fishing.  ;)

    Honestly, I do not know. It usually is they have some other boondoggle they want to spend money on...or are so concerned with funding social welfare ( for lazy people who never worked a day in their lives)...that the money is diverted. 

    I did see a snippet of Bill Nelson at some anti gun rally yesterday...calling for the outlawing of " Banana clips"  :D
    ...and threw in " Assault weapons" for good measure. 

    The worst part is you are going to get to chose between " Banana Bill "  and " Rick the D**K" Scott....who is no friend of environmental causes...this coming November.  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG
    And...not to put too fine a point on it.... 50 million...for the issues we are facing. Is like handing out 5 gallon buckets on the Titanic and telling the passengers to bail. 

    Add in the fact that sadly, there are many "agendas"...and people and entities MAKING MONEY...tons of it.. off this.
    Little programs here and there..piecemeal with little hope of any real value...draining what funds are available.
    And then of course, we must be careful to not point our finger at any culprits... If certain communities or agencies were proven to have been major contributors...then they might be negligent...and culpable? ...subject to punitive damages?  What if that was our own local Gov'ts...what then?  

    Local Gov't wants the Feds to come in and save the day...but the Fed didn't cause the harm...poor decision making for 30 or 40 years did.  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    duckmanJR said:
    And...not to put too fine a point on it.... 50 million...for the issues we are facing. Is like handing out 5 gallon buckets on the Titanic and telling the passengers to bail. 


    Local Gov't wants the Feds to come in and save the day...but the Fed didn't cause the harm...poor decision making for 30 or 40 years did.  
    Wait -  are you saying no one has been “minding the store” for 30 to 40 years?  Are you saying that no environmental agency, Fed or state, foresaw the link between infusion of nutrients by multiple sources like antiquated sewerage systems and runoff from residential over fertilizing for decades could lead to algae blooms that shade the life out of sea grass and rob DO needed for fish to survive?  Is that what you’re implying? Say it ain’t so.

    Let’s fix this!
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG
    duckmanJR said:
    And...not to put too fine a point on it.... 50 million...for the issues we are facing. Is like handing out 5 gallon buckets on the Titanic and telling the passengers to bail. 


    Local Gov't wants the Feds to come in and save the day...but the Fed didn't cause the harm...poor decision making for 30 or 40 years did.  
    Wait -  are you saying no one has been “minding the store” for 30 to 40 years?  Are you saying that no environmental agency, Fed or state, foresaw the link between infusion of nutrients by multiple sources like antiquated sewerage systems and runoff from residential over fertilizing for decades could lead to algae blooms that shade the life out of sea grass and rob DO needed for fish to survive?  Is that what you’re implying? Say it ain’t so.

    Let’s fix this!
     all that and....

    Local Gov't wanted development above all else....No developer was ever tasked with supplementing infrastructure such as roads or schools or...anything. They sure as heck were not going to put in sewer. 

    Just build and reap benefit$$$$..... then leave.  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Lunch Money SurfLunch Money Surf Posts: 1,026 Officer
    duckmanJR said:
    Just build and reap benefit$$$$..... then leave.  

    History of Florida summed up in one sentence.
  • theUtheU The Orlando SewerPosts: 26 Greenhorn
    This so depressing, If this ecological disaster occurred in N.C. someone would be going to jail. 
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    Enough ranting - I certainly contributed to the rage but let’s dial back in to “the fix”.

    Go back and see what huntinthewild wrote and firestorm implied.
    has anyone on this thread  seen water sample data that shows concentration of: N,P and algae (including speciation) from some of the worst areas.  Are there simple sechi disk comparisons with associated chemical and biomass results from the the same areas.

    Duckman: do you know if the company that cleaned up Lake Jessup has a mobile plant for restorations?
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG


    Duckman: do you know if the company that cleaned up Lake Jessup has a mobile plant for restorations?
    It is my understanding that it is mobile.... the company name is " Aquafiber"... maybe they have more info on the web.  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    I’m hoping to track down the department(s) and manager(s), responsible for managing the 1/2% tax for  lagoon restoration.

    Questions I intend to ask include the following, feel free to chime in with other question that we can pose to the State:

    What projects have been, are being considered?  

    Do you have data on concentration of suspended biomass (I’m assuming mostly algae at this time).  Are there data where one can see the correlation between macroalgae concentration and water turbidity/clarity?  Regarding turbidity, what is the threshold for sunlight penetration for maintaining seagrass, 24-30inches?
    Are there any cost effective technologies for removing suspended macroalgae?  Is aqua-fiber a consideration?
    Does Cocoa Beach do any water sampling?  I.e., of canals, of storm water runoff such as stormwater that dumps into the two canals on either end of McNabb Pkwy?  
    Is “muck dredging” ongoing?

    What organization/department, manages the 1/2% tax for restoration of the Banana R?
    Do you have contact info for a manager involved with Banana R restoration?
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn



    Duckman: do you know if the company that cleaned up Lake Jessup has a mobile plant for restorations?
    It is my understanding that it is mobile.... the company name is " Aquafiber"... maybe they have more info on the web.  
    Following up on my commitment to track down managers and  key POCs with responsibility of prioritizing projects here’s some FYI:  V. Barker is director of the Brevard Co Natural Resource Mgmt Dept.   Have not spoke with her yet but that’s the plan.
    from the recent article on IRL/Banana R clean up she sounds/seems like she understands that  removal of legacy waste is as least as important as infrastructure improvements, and that it’s not either or, but both and.....
    Spoke with the lead person at Aquafiber this morning after seeing that Aquafiber submitted a proposal to the IRL Natural Estuary Program.  The NSP is small potatoes in terms of size of projects, but Aquafiber plans a small scale demonstration on their effectiveness from a floating platform.
    Joe, Pete and others probably already know most of this already but just in case there are other “inquiring minds”
    Stay tuned
  • HUNTINTHEWILDHUNTINTHEWILD Posts: 69 Greenhorn
    FOIA their spending and projects.  You will know exactly where the money is going.....

    https://www.foia.gov/


  • HUNTINTHEWILDHUNTINTHEWILD Posts: 69 Greenhorn
    If you have never done it, don't worry, it's actually very easy to do!
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    Ha!  Been on the receiving end more than a few times 
  • HUNTINTHEWILDHUNTINTHEWILD Posts: 69 Greenhorn
    Good then you know how to word the FOIA to get what you need.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG
    Seeker......Have you looked at this site...some info there you might want to look at. 

    http://www.irlcouncil.com/

    Dr Defreese ( sp?) he was involved with Aquafiber if you have questions about that technology. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • KelsoKelso Posts: 19 Greenhorn
    After doing some research on Aquafiber, why has this waste removal system not been implemented in our lagoon? Seems like it could work!?
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG
    Kelso said:
    After doing some research on Aquafiber, why has this waste removal system not been implemented in our lagoon? Seems like it could work!?


    I would go with cost..... 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    Kelso said:
    After doing some research on Aquafiber, why has this waste removal system not been implemented in our lagoon? Seems like it could work!?
    After speaking with the lead person at Aquafiber and hearing more about the technology I like their approach.  It’s no doubt costly but what is the value of a restored IRL?  We need matching federal dollars.

    Duckster - thanks for the link on the 2017 report.  Did you read?  on the right margin there are links to Algal Bloom monitoring, sampling and results.   I did not see any sampling data from the IRL.   Please educate me if I overlooked.
    Kelsey : I’ll find out from DeFreese the status of the Aquafiber pilot project proposed to IRLNEP.

    stay tuned
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,501 AG


    Duckster - thanks for the link on the 2017 report.  Did you read?  on the right margin there are links to Algal Bloom monitoring, sampling and results.   I did not see any sampling data from the IRL.   Please educate me if I overlooked.
    Kelsey : I’ll find out from DeFreese the status of the Aquafiber pilot project proposed to IRLNEP.

    stay tuned




    seeker...sorry...I'm old and easily confused...I read so much stuff sometimes it is hard to remember who published what.

    I think sampling is either on the St. Johns District site  ( contact Dr. Jacoby...he's the lagoon expert)...
    Or it could be ORCA...they have the monitoring stations (kilroys).... Dr Edith Widder is the head of that. 

    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    If you check out IRLNEP you’ll see that a small ~$300k, Aquafiber pilot is being considered for funding. $300k doesn’t do any significant cleanup but may answer questions on fiscal feasibility of this technology.  Stay tuned!
    Lastly, i spoke with both Aquafiber and IRLNEP.  Their approach is sound and science based BUT when I checked out ORCA-Kilroy for real-time data,I was saddened that there are no water data from the Banana River ( none fron NMZ, Cocoa Beach etc)
    there is a foot note stating that funding cuts in summer of 2017 resulted in a reduction of sampling stations from 25 to 8.  What’s going on????

    Also learned from V. Barker, that 1/2% tax is going to utility improvements in Satellite Beach - (maybe NFH as well).
    So sad to see money diverted from lagoon cleanup ($8M) to pay for neglected infrastructure caused by short-sighted political groups.
  • cuetostercuetoster Posts: 38 Greenhorn
    Thank you fishseeker for being proactive and looking into these items.
    I could be way off but it seems there’s a communication disconnect to the public regarding the progress of any current or future cleanup projects, or lack there of. I would love to see a webpage, or even a Facebook page, dedicated to informing of the plans, progress, timeline, etc. of the various tasks/projects being worked on. I know there’s various city and county updates here and there but they don’t seem to summarize clearly and concisely what’s actually happening. I feel it would be more powerful, substantial, and would even hold the officials accountable to actually follow through with what’s being said if the progress was more closely monitored by passionate individuals.
    Any thoughts? 
  • FishseekerFishseeker Posts: 72 Greenhorn
    Guys - the 2018 project plan for Save our Lagoon, is out.  Here’s the link -
    www.brevardfl.gov 
    Draft 2018 Save our IRLagoon Project Plan

    Before I start in I want to first give some qualification to my posts but it may drone on and detract from more important issues, so it’s toward the end. 

    The Save our Lagoon (restoration projects funded with the 1/2% tax) is, as far as I can tell, our ONLY hope of lagoon restoration.  
    On to issues related to science based, data based decisions on project selection. But first I want to challenge and encourage you guys to jump in.  

    Consider this:  the report lists 5 sources of nutrient loading.  Absent is the mass of N and P in the water column in the form of “brown tide” and other algae.  And try as I may, I’ve not found any current data on suspended biomass.
    As an aside, there is the view that “ it’s a waste to clean up the water column before taking care of failing sewerage and septic tanks”.  Virginia Barker, the head of this effort by Brevard County, said in our conversation, “that’s like a doctor saying ‘I’ll not treat my patient’s terminal cancer until he stops smoking.’”  My rhetorical point is it’s not one source but multiple.   The lagoon is in very bad/sad shape and launching projects that allow sun penetration and growth of sea grass in the near term is a good thing.

    Page 6:  “[an] important consideration for project sequencing was how quickly projects could produce significant nutrient reduction.”
    Page 13:  “Septic system removal/upgrade will take longer to achieve nutrient reduction...”

    Ironically, only septic system, sewerage upgrades and muck removal are being considered for funding. 

    My last point for today:  please attend the council meeting (April 10) where these projects are finalized

    My affiliation and tie to the Banana River goes back to the late 50’s.  When I was old enough, to duck hunt in the mid to late 60’s I spent 1000’s of ours paddling through the islands building blinds and finally shooting over decoys.  There were lots of fish then.  Caught my share, killed way too many trying to demonstrate my prowess as a 17- 20
    year old.  Only after moving west to go to school did I begin to see what a treasure the IRL is (now an abused treasure).   I’ll take credit for being part of the problem for the legacy waste that is on the brink of destroying this treasure - but I want to be part of the “fix” so that what’s there now is not the legacy left of others.
    stay tuned


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