Red snapper count

MossyoMossyo Posts: 6 Greenhorn
I have a felling I know where this is probably going to go, but Ill post it anyway. Below is a link to the "Myfishcount" app. I would ask all that have even thought about going out for Red snapper last weekend and this weekend to please download this and record any and all data. Even if you werent able to go out due to weather, please record that. Believe it or not, this data will go a long way to letting us get an even longer season next year.

https://www.myfishcount.com/
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Replies

  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,260 Officer
    Mossyo wrote: »
    Believe it or not, this data will go a long way to letting us get an even longer season next year.

    https://www.myfishcount.com/

    :rotflmao :funnypost :rotflmao

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • drgibbydrgibby Posts: 1,199 Officer
    Hmmmmmm.............
  • DocRonDocRon Posts: 48 Deckhand
    I plan to record every toss back on every trip out as long as the let me, long after the season closed.
    New to Saltwater fishing
    Why is it always so dang bumpy out here!!
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,260 Officer
    DocRon wrote: »
    I plan to record every toss back on every trip out as long as the let me, long after the season closed.

    You do understand that their stated reason for not letting us have a season last year was because we killed more by accident (throwbacks), than they would of allowed us to keep had we had a season.

    They call them "discards".:rolleyes

    But go ahead and throw gas on the fire if you like.....they already made their decisions long ago anyway.:blowkiss

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • MossyoMossyo Posts: 6 Greenhorn
    So... one of the main reasons for this is because there has been not eh best data to this point. There is a ratio (albeit flawed) for dead discards of number of fish that survive at a given depth etc... However, when there is not official reported catch due to the closed seasons, thats a very hard number to determine accurately. We all know that the population is strong and there there are plenty of fish, but with no reported catch is difficult to relate via science and data. The more catches that are reported and reported released and swim away freely at a variety of depths, he better it is for everyone.

    "they already made their decisions long ago anyway"

    not sure what your definition of "long ago" is, but these past two seasons were decided upon about a month or so ago. There is actually even talk of opening up another season in December if what they think has happened has actually happened which is quite a few people left at the dock due to the weather...
  • TibetanYetiTibetanYeti Posts: 39 Greenhorn
    Even if everyone participated in the survey, the probability of those survey's being answered truthfully is about the same as the number of people that went offshore fishing this past weekend.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,260 Officer
    Mossyo wrote: »
    There is actually even talk of opening up another season in December if what they think has happened has actually happened which is quite a few people left at the dock due to the weather...

    Have they given any thought to how many people were "left at the dock" due to their only being so generous as to provide a whole one weeks notice as to what the "seasons" dates would be. Actions speak louder than words.

    You are correct that with no reported catch it is hard to measure actual "fishing effort & success rate" which would be useful for managing the state and health of the fishery.

    But lucky for them you are now collecting data on "demand for the fishery"........which correlates to everyone who even would have liked to try to go but for whatever reason just didn't make it. That data also won't be very useful for judging the state and health of the fishery.

    But it sure will help them determine what they think the monetary value of a "catch shares" or "fish tag" fishery will be.
    :stinkfish

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,414 Admiral

    But lucky for them you are now collecting data on "demand for the fishery"........which correlates to everyone who even would have liked to try to go but for whatever reason just didn't make it. That data also won't be very useful for judging the state and health of the fishery.

    :stinkfish
    but, but.......
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • optimistic Angleroptimistic Angler Posts: 586 Officer
    Mossyo wrote: »
    There is actually even talk of opening up another season in December if what they think has happened has actually happened which is quite a few people left at the dock due to the weather...

    A couple of token days is not a season it's a joke, a slap in the face.
  • pond scumpond scum Posts: 118 Deckhand
    A couple of token days is not a season it's a joke, a slap in the face.

    Yup
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,751 Admiral
    Mossyo wrote: »
    I have a felling I know where this is probably going to go, but Ill post it anyway. Below is a link to the "Myfishcount" app. I would ask all that have even thought about going out for Red snapper last weekend and this weekend to please download this and record any and all data. Even if you werent able to go out due to weather, please record that. Believe it or not, this data will go a long way to letting us get an even longer season next year.

    https://www.myfishcount.com/

    Yes, Imagine if they actually doubled the season........
  • KillAllCudasKillAllCudas Posts: 10 Greenhorn
    The Red situation is a joke.
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    A joke indeed.   We have them in 40ft off Clearwater beach now.  They are 10plus pounds and not dead discard. 
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    Feds don't want to know what' out there 
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    I'm just curious and trying to understand better.. When evaluating fish stocks, don't these agencies conduct independent fish 'counts'.  I think even the biologist at WMAs fully understand that you can't evaluate the population of a species through harvest.  That's not a great way to sample population densities for all kinds of reasons.

    Why does there seem to be so much focus on harvest data?  Are we evaluating the health of fisheries otherwise?
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    btw, I understand that harvest data is important for determining impact
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    When you figure it out let me know.  I take FWC researchers out on a regular basis and they don' understand it.....
  • brettfitzbrettfitz Posts: 438 Deckhand
    MyFishCount and the Florida Gulf Red Snapper data projects are through SGF, both based on our iAngler platform.

    In the 8 years we've been collecting fishery data at SGF through the Angler Action program, we've learned quite a lot. In the case of red snapper, data is extremely hard to come by - they don't spend much time in areas where fishery independent researchers can collect data (like they can for inshore species via netting, shocking, etc.). Catch data is critical.

    The bottom line is, the more anglers that provide accurate, honest, complete information through these voluntary self-reporting programs, the better the fish will be managed.

    The estimated number of trips won't change based on the number of reports. But the percentage of trips reported will, and that means a lot.

    I have heard a few folks say they will fudge their numbers. I don't recommend that at all, it will not help anglers or fish.

    The data on the throw-backs (discards) is really the most important. The depth caught, the disposition at release (descending device? vented? eaten by predator, etc.), number and estimated length of discards -- that data is really the key to us getting access to the fishery that is in line with what we anglers see.
     

    The answer lies in accurate data, and lots of it.

    I wanted to say one last thing about the iAngler Gulf Red Snapper app. A new glitch has appeared in most of our apps that makes it occasionally not let you type in certain data fields. This doesn't affect most phones, and doesn't happen every time. We're close to getting it ironed out but it might be quirky for another day or two. Considering FWC needed this app in record time (there is one for charter captains too), we did the best we could and overall are very pleased.

    Data is already coming in. After one day, if the current reporting trend continues, I can tell that we'll be able to help FWC immensely.


    "A 'real' fisherman is one who thinks like I do. There are more of us around than you might suspect."
    -John Gierach
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    edited June 12 #20
    Sooooo, still. Only catch data.  Never mind you will only get data from the kind of people that are willing to be citizen scientists and collect all that data you're looking for.  Not quite representative at all but whatever.  Thanks for pimping your software.  I hope to heck it doesn't gain momentum or fwc show interest.  We don't need more bad data influencing policy decisions.  Or glitches...
  • brettfitzbrettfitz Posts: 438 Deckhand
    Hi spangler. Yes, I am promoting the program. Got better ideas? I am willing to listen.
    "A 'real' fisherman is one who thinks like I do. There are more of us around than you might suspect."
    -John Gierach
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,570 Captain
    The ONLY way to effectively implement this type of data collection is through a mandatory program.  Self-reported data is useless.  It MUST be enforced or it is worthless.
    sorry.  I know that is out of your control, but it is reality.
    im still waiting for Texas to get it.
  • brettfitzbrettfitz Posts: 438 Deckhand
    Hi Tom. Long time. You might be right. I am holding out, hoping there is at least a hybrid format that is less of a burden on the everyday trips. So long as we keep pushing for better systems, better data, better management, etc., and we don't let ourselves become enemies to each other, we'll get it right one way or the other. Just keep at it.

    I was just in Texas fishing with some friends in Baffin Bay. Nice place -
    "A 'real' fisherman is one who thinks like I do. There are more of us around than you might suspect."
    -John Gierach
  • brettfitzbrettfitz Posts: 438 Deckhand
    Whups - just to clarify, I meant you (Tom) might be right about eventually needing it to be mandatory, not that self reporting data is useless.

    It does not solve the two big questions right now, abundance and effort. But a stock assessment is more complicated than that, as you know. Catch rates and size structure of discards are two areas where self reported data holds up. It's a start, and if nothing else the self-reporting systems will help us hone in on what anglers want/need/will tolerate/etc.
    "A 'real' fisherman is one who thinks like I do. There are more of us around than you might suspect."
    -John Gierach
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,570 Captain
    edited June 13 #25
    Yessir.

    There is an $11 million stock abundance study going on right now that we all hope will show that there is no crisis here. 

    State data programs such as Alabama’s Snapper Check, Louisiana’s La Creel, and Mississippi’s Tails and Scales are excellent models to follow.

    Btw, they are mandatory.

    Best,

    Tom


  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    Well I sure as **** am not recommending mandatory.  That sounds even worse!!!  ROTFLMAO

    The day I am required to pull out my phone, take a picture, record coordinates, take weight, measure length, girth, water depth, water temp, air temp.............. fish disposition lol, every time I catch a fish, is the day I pack my bags officially.  Please, let's not make fishing more unreasonable than it's already gotten.  I like to enjoy myself while fishing.

    I'm am 100% for data and science.  But let's not get ourselves into another horrible mess thinking it's ok to assess fishery health on a limited view of the situation. 

    As far as suggestions?  I am not a trained biologist or statistician, I'll leave that up to them.  It's not an easy task.  But I have enough common sense to understand that looking at catch data only, or mostly, will really screw things up.

    Fishery health needs to be assessed through a multifaceted approach that uses multiple independent survey methods to be utilized.  It should be the responsibility of the agencies driving policy, to figure this out.  Not fisherman.

    Anything other than sound science being used to set individual catch limits (number and size), is absurd.



  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    Well I sure as **** am not recommending mandatory.  That sounds even worse!!!  ROTFLMAO

    The day I am required to pull out my phone, take a picture, record coordinates, take weight, measure length, girth, water depth, water temp, air temp.............. fish disposition lol, every time I catch a fish, is the day I pack my bags officially.  Please, let's not make fishing more unreasonable than it's already gotten.  I like to enjoy myself while fishing.

    I'm am 100% for data and science.  But let's not get ourselves into another horrible mess thinking it's ok to assess fishery health on a limited view of the situation. 

    As far as suggestions?  I am not a trained biologist or statistician, I'll leave that up to them.  It's not an easy task.  But I have enough common sense to understand that looking at catch data only, or mostly, will really screw things up.

    Fishery health needs to be assessed through a multifaceted approach that uses multiple independent survey methods to be utilized.  It should be the responsibility of the agencies driving policy, to figure this out.  Not fisherman.

    Anything other than sound science being used to set individual catch limits (number and size), is absurd.



  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    Well I sure as **** am not recommending mandatory.  That sounds even worse!!!  ROTFLMAO

    The day I am required to pull out my phone, take a picture, record coordinates, take weight, measure length, girth, water depth, water temp, air temp.............. fish disposition lol, every time I catch a fish, is the day I pack my bags officially.  Please, let's not make fishing more unreasonable than it's already gotten.  I like to enjoy myself while fishing.

    I'm am 100% for data and science.  But let's not get ourselves into another horrible mess thinking it's ok to assess fishery health on a limited view of the situation. 

    As far as suggestions?  I am not a trained biologist or statistician, I'll leave that up to them.  It's not an easy task.  But I have enough common sense to understand that looking at catch data only, or mostly, will really screw things up.

    Fishery health needs to be assessed through a multifaceted approach that uses multiple independent survey methods to be utilized.  It should be the responsibility of the agencies driving policy, to figure this out.  Not fisherman.

    Anything other than sound science being used to set individual catch limits (number and size), is absurd.



  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    Well I sure as shoot am not recommending mandatory.  That sounds even worse!!!  ROTFLMAO

    The day I am required to pull out my phone, take a picture, record coordinates, take weight, measure length, girth, water depth, water temp, air temp.............. fish disposition lol, every time I catch a fish, is the day I pack my bags officially.  Please, let's not make fishing more unreasonable than it's already gotten.  I like to enjoy myself while fishing.

    I'm am 100% for data and science.  But let's not get ourselves into another horrible mess thinking it's ok to assess fishery health on a limited view of the situation. 

    As far as suggestions?  I am not a trained biologist or statistician, I'll leave that up to them.  It's not an easy task.  But I have enough common sense to understand that looking at catch data only, or mostly, will really screw things up.

    Fishery health needs to be assessed through a multifaceted approach that uses multiple independent survey methods to be utilized.  It should be the responsibility of the agencies driving policy, to figure this out.  Not fisherman.

    Anything other than sound science being used to set individual catch limits (number and size), is absurd.



  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,570 Captain
    It takes less than a minute to do.


  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    edited June 13 #31
    It takes less than a minute to do.
    NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY!  Nor should it be.  Ridiculous!!!  Are you really expecting the general public to provide accurate data, in any kind of predictable way.  Laughs...

    And really, less than a minute.. well that's debatable.  So do I do this for EVERY fish I catch?  Pinfish.  Catfish.  Where does this all end?????

    Quantity and size limits works. Period.  Catch/Harvest data does not even come close to being representative of a fishery's health (or any other wildlife).  Period. 

    I know I don't have to tell any of you that populations of any species are cyclical.  How does your catch data differentiate from that??

    Try again.




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