Backing breakage

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Replies

  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    Same thing.....Use the surgons loop....on the end of the fly line install a 50 pound braided mono loop
  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    Aside from the knot to the spool I'm trying to avoid any other knots and just use splicing to do the rest.

    The single strand braid I have used in the past never slipped on the arbor but not sure about the hollow stuff as it is smoother.
    I personally have never used the hollow stuff your describing, So I wouldn't have a clue.....If I was a betting man, I would bet you that your going to be just fine.......My 2 cents

    Carl
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,175 Captain
    Last question odc, thanks for the help. Are you doing a triple wrap arbor knot with the power pro directly to the spool, or a base layer of dacron. Wasn't sure if the hollow ace would slip on the spool if tied directly to the bare spool.
    Ok so I lied, one additional question in addition to the connection to the reel mentioned above. With your 40 hollow ace how are you attaching that to the fly line?

    With the 60 I can probably splice a loop or splice to 80 and then a loop. Wondering if the 40 can be spliced or if the diameter will cut into the rear loop of the fly line. Thanks again for the help. Headed to the keys in a couple weeks just want to make sure I have good connections.


    Any reputable shop will do all of that for you free of charge, it is incredibly important that any backing be put on under pressure if you plan on stopping big fish. If you use standard gel spun or spectra backing, this is even more important. Because it's round, it digs into itself much easier. Either will require more tension than I can apply without a machine. As for connecting the backing to the spool, I splice a massive loop in the back of my backing, big enough to pass around the spool 4-5 times, then pass the end of the loop over the reel, binding the loop onto the spool. It'll never slip because of the surface area. For backing to line, again I use a spliced loop, and I'll cut the factory welded loop off and replace it with a braided mono loop. The spliced loop is stronger than the braid itself, and there's nothing to pass through the guides.
  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    Mr Dirt,

    Great advice ....When I used dacron I also used the blind splice loop.....Then I went to Braid (white power pro) and the triple surgons loop.

    Carl
  • Captain HookCaptain Hook Posts: 107 Officer
    Was planning on taking it to the shop to get it wound on, just doing the connections myself.
  • Captain HookCaptain Hook Posts: 107 Officer
    Any reputable shop will do all of that for you free of charge, it is incredibly important that any backing be put on under pressure if you plan on stopping big fish. If you use standard gel spun or spectra backing, this is even more important. Because it's round, it digs into itself much easier. Either will require more tension than I can apply without a machine. As for connecting the backing to the spool, I splice a massive loop in the back of my backing, big enough to pass around the spool 4-5 times, then pass the end of the loop over the reel, binding the loop onto the spool. It'll never slip because of the surface area. For backing to line, again I use a spliced loop, and I'll cut the factory welded loop off and replace it with a braided mono loop. The spliced loop is stronger than the braid itself, and there's nothing to pass through the guides.

    Got the hollow ace in today, spent some time testing some different splices, no issues there. I am having trouble visualizing the spliced loop connection at the base end of the backing to the spool. To clarify I can get the large spliced loop you referenced, that part is easy. Is there a name for the connection where you wrap the loop around the spool? If I can look up an illustration online it would help.
  • Captain HookCaptain Hook Posts: 107 Officer
    I think I got it. After wrapping the loop around the spool 5x you are opening the end of the loop and passing the spool through the loop. Is that right? Once pulled tight the loop cinches down on itself.
  • BuzflyBuzfly Posts: 23 Greenhorn
    Any reputable shop will do all of that for you free of charge, it is incredibly important that any backing be put on under pressure if you plan on stopping big fish. If you use standard gel spun or spectra backing, this is even more important. Because it's round, it digs into itself much easier. Either will require more tension than I can apply without a machine.

    ODC is on point with this one. Another thing that can help to prevent backing getting buried is when winding on the backing is to make a few wide wraps when you are putting it on. Normally you keep the backing close to the previous wrap as you fill the spool and move left to right right to left as you fill the backing. Keeping it tight with no gaps or bumps. Every once in a wile purposely make a few wide wraps from left to right right to left. This will make it harder for the backing to burry itself in-between the adjacent warps. Hope you understand my explenation.
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,175 Captain
    Got the hollow ace in today, spent some time testing some different splices, no issues there. I am having trouble visualizing the spliced loop connection at the base end of the backing to the spool. To clarify I can get the large spliced loop you referenced, that part is easy. Is there a name for the connection where you wrap the loop around the spool? If I can look up an illustration online it would help.


    I'll post a series of photos later tonight if I have time.
  • smctroutsmctrout Posts: 35 Deckhand
    Reviving older thread. Hope all of you Florida sportsmen make it through Irma OK. If you don't have time to answer my questions, I understand why.

    Two years ago, Carl Blackledge wrote:
    I have played the Dacron backing game for years, then I switched to "white Power pro backing" 50 pound Power Pro is actually 72 pound test, this stuff (spectra) won't rot and is actually so slippery it's even hard to dye it It's almost like trying to dye a piece of glass. You will automatically get 50% more backing because of the smaller diameter. The best knot to use is the triple surgeons loop (6 times thru) when you make the loop, make sure you end up with a two foot loop single strand, then double that loop over on it's self and tie another surgeons loop 3 times through, when finished you will have a loop one foot long with double line. Lefty claims that knot is stronger then a Bimini with 50-70 twists. If you install new Power Pro, don't let a fly shop install a piece of tape or anything else on the reel arbor for the power pro to bite on, just tie the first few wraps on backwards for a good grip, once you take the plunge, you won't be breaking your backing again. Loop your backing to your fly line with a 50 pound braided loop installed to the back of the fly line.....you should be bullet proof.

    My questions:
    1) Are you still using Power Pro spectra for backing? If not, what are you using now?
    2) When you tie the second Surgeon's loop with the doubled line, how close to the 6-turn Surgeon's loop should the knot be for the second three-turn Surgeon's loop?

    Thanks,
    smctrout
  • HambweldHambweld Posts: 215 Officer
    Suffix 832 ghost. I double the line and wrap 3x then a 3 wrap uni to the spool. It's never failed on any of my gear (conventional or fly) second the 50/60# suffix ghost is not died so theres no fading, it's also tougher than normal gsp so it handles oyster/choral better it you get to it. I use a double Bimini on 10wt+ and still use an 9wrap Albright on smaller sizes. Love it, won't leave it, has never let me down!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • smctroutsmctrout Posts: 35 Deckhand
    Hambweld wrote: »
    Suffix 832 ghost. I double the line and wrap 3x then a 3 wrap uni to the spool. It's never failed on any of my gear (conventional or fly) second the 50/60# suffix ghost is not died so theres no fading, it's also tougher than normal gsp so it handles oyster/choral better it you get to it. I use a double Bimini on 10wt+ and still use an 9wrap Albright on smaller sizes. Love it, won't leave it, has never let me down!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Hambweld,

    When you say you're doubling the line and wrapping 3x, do you mean that you're making a 3-wrap Surgeon's loop for the loop-to-loop with the flyline, or are you wrapping the doubled line around the spool 3 times before tying the 3-wrap uniknot?

    smctrout
  • HambweldHambweld Posts: 215 Officer
    smctrout wrote: »
    Hambweld,

    When you say you're doubling the line and wrapping 3x, do you mean that you're making a 3-wrap Surgeon's loop for the loop-to-loop with the flyline, or are you wrapping the doubled line around the spool 3 times before tying the 3-wrap uniknot?

    smctrout


    I wrap the double line 3x around the spool then a 3x uni. A regular arbor knot will slip with sufix. I use a double Bimini for my loops.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • smctroutsmctrout Posts: 35 Deckhand
    Hambweld,
    I'm having difficulty figuring out how you attach backing to the reel. If I double the line and try to tie the uniknot with the loop made by doubling the line, one leg of the doubled line will not tighten down when I slide the uniknot toward the reel. Would you mind describing the process in more detail?

    Thanks,
    SMCtrout
  • HambweldHambweld Posts: 215 Officer
    Double the line for about 2ft, then wrap the double around the spool, then tie a 3x uni. Slowly tighten it down on the spool then cinch hard until it quits moving. You will have a loop tag and then a single tag out the top.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • smctroutsmctrout Posts: 35 Deckhand
    Hambweld,
    Thanks for the explanation. I got it to work this time.
    SMCtrout
  • HambweldHambweld Posts: 215 Officer
    👍 just have too pull both main line and single tag at the same time to cinch it down. Then tug the loop one last time for good luck!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • smctroutsmctrout Posts: 35 Deckhand
    Carl Blackledge recommended a knot for making a loop in braid backing to connect to a flyline. He described it as follows:
    The best knot to use is the triple surgeons loop (6 times thru) when you make the loop, make sure you end up with a two foot loop single strand, then double that loop over on it's self and tie another surgeons loop 3 times through, when finished you will have a loop one foot long with double line. Lefty claims that knot is stronger then a Bimini with 50-70 twists.

    Does anyone else use this knot? If so, how close should the first surgeon's loop (6 times through) be to the second surgeon's loop (3 times through) with doubled braid?

    Thanks,
    SMCtrout
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