Attaching Flyline to Backing (Loop to Loop)

Sage ManSage Man Posts: 195 Officer
I just got a new flyline (Rio Tarpon Quickshooter). I'm the golfer who's always buying a new driver hoping it's the magic cure.

Anyway...it's got loops on both ends so it made me wonder how you guys would attach that to the backing? Bimini Twist?

Replies

  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,181 Captain
    Dacron/micron is hollow, splice a loop in it. It has no profile and it's stronger than the line itself. I'll attempt an SBS later, all you'll need is about 20" of #2 stainless wire. Takes about 3 minutes (I've been timed at the shop at less than 30 seconds).
  • sunflowersunflower Posts: 413 Deckhand
    I am loop-to-loop on all my reels from 6 to 12+ weight. Bimini twist or spider knot in gelspun for loop-to-loop is fine. You don't need Dacron, and gel-spun allows you to have more yards of capacity with an even smaller diameter. Those knots in gelspun or braid are of negligible diameter. They will pass through your guides fine.

    Dacron is fine, but has no real benefit over modern gelspun.

    The line is designed with a loop-to-loop connection because that is an excellent way to attach.

    http://blog.saltwaterexperience.com/blog/2016/5/2/gel-spun-vs-dacron-backing-for-fly-reels

    http://midcurrent.com/gear/gel-spun-for-fly-reel-backing/

    http://www.orvis.com/p/gel-spun-backing/211t
    Mark

    grace finds goodness in everything ...


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,181 Captain
    If you're going to use spectra backing, use hollow core. It has 4 times as many carriers, lays flat under pressure, it's spliceable, and it's the same price as the 4 carrier gsp backing marketed towards fly anglers.
  • mro1mro1 Posts: 75 Greenhorn
    Are there any issues between ss snake guides and the spectra type line?
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,181 Captain
    mro1 wrote: »
    Are there any issues between ss snake guides and the spectra type line?

    No.
  • Bill BlantonBill Blanton Posts: 37 Greenhorn
    Here are two simple ways to make a loop-to-loop connection between backing and fly line.

    If your backing is 30-pound dacron, just form a loop in the backing large enough to slip over the cassette your fly line is on, then tie a three-turn surgeon's knot to secure the loop. This will work just fine for fish up to and including large tarpon. When you make the loop-to-loop connection, do it once, then make a half turn in the backing loop and slip it over the fly line loop again. This double loop will help prevent the formation of a girth hitch between the loops.

    If your backing is 20-pound dacron or any of the gel spun fibers like PowerPro, then follow the scheme recommended by the late Cam Sigler. Here's a quote from his web site that explains the technique:

    4 Strand Double Overhand Loop Knot

    We use this knot to attach backing to Mono or flylines with loops when using spectra type or small diameter backings. The only trick is to make all of the loops the same exact length. With the 4 strands, this displaces the pressure across all strands and does not allow the backing to cut through mono or flyline cores. This knot, with a little practice, even with all the strands, is easy to tie.

    Start by creating one loop over your index finger and pinch the tag end with opposite hand over main line (about 7” Loop). Using your finger with the loop over it, go back in a hand over hand motion looping around your finger and pinching the main line again until you have 4 loops.

    You will now have a tag end and 3 tag loops pinched onto the main line and 4 loops over your finger. Now simply tie a double overhand Surgeons knot. Be careful to pull evenly when tightening and keep the loops over one finger so they stay the same length.

    Dab some type of pliable glue over the knot when done to keep it from slipping back out, but allowing it to tighten more if necessary.


    If you go to the Cam Sigler site, you can see a diagram of the knot:

    http://www.camsigler.com/tackletips.aspx

    Hope this info helps.

    Bill
    Fly fish the Everglades with Capt. Bill Blanton
    www.flyfishtheglades.com
    (239) 253-8899
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,181 Captain
    This isn't complicated. You can double the surface area of your loop/loop connection by making an extra pass and a twist.

    https://youtu.be/TaBenA8jfco
  • HookIHookI Posts: 94 Greenhorn
    learning here : if your not going to change your line ( which I have 4 extra spools for the same 8w reel = tropical & cold water lines ) why not use a nail knot ? I like gelspun
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,181 Captain
    HookI wrote: »
    learning here : if your not going to change your line ( which I have 4 extra spools for the same 8w reel = tropical & cold water lines ) why not use a nail knot ? I like gelspun


    There's absolutely nothing wrong with a nail knot for lighter rigs, but your connection is only as strong as the bond between the core and the coating of your line. For rigs over 7wt, where class tippets can be 16lbs+, I wouldn't use a nail knot. When using gsp you have less surface area, gsp will bite and cut coatings if you put any significant strain on them. I like gsp too, it's fun to rig. I did a PR knot connecting 50lb suffix 832 to an SA 9wt grand slam taper the other day per request. I still trust the loop more. 9 years of rigging the majority of fly tackle sold in my county and there's never been a slip on a spliced loop.
  • HookIHookI Posts: 94 Greenhorn
    Thanks for the speedy reply
  • duramaxnay6duramaxnay6 Posts: 2 Greenhorn
    Nail not from backing to fly line has been proven to be MUCH weaker than loop to loop. Zach Matthews at Itinerant Angler tested multiple different connections and the welded loop (home made with a hair flat iron even) was almost twice as strong as a nail knot. Nail knots will simply strip the coating off the fly line well before the welded loops fail.
    As far was what knot for the backing, I've seen tests where they show a bimini twist is actually slightly stronger than a double bimini, but in reality, the break strength of either one is exceedingly high, and most likely not the weakest part in your overall fly rig if done properly. The thought on the double bimini being better is that there is greater surface area to not cut into your fly line loop quite as bad as a single bimini. I am more in this camp, but it's purely anecdotal.
  • smctroutsmctrout Posts: 35 Deckhand
    How about an Albright for backing to line and for leader butt to line? I use the welded loop and tie an Albright around it. I tease the mono for the leader butt into place until it is almost tight so that the mono doesn't twist the welded loop, then I tighten it. I use 30-lb gel spun for backing and tie it to the fly line with an Albright as well. Is there anything wrong with this?
  • clampmanclampman Posts: 130 Officer
    The worst thing about loop to loop on the fly line end is the factory fly line loop. They are way too small to undo easily and they also quickly get chewed up if you catch a lot big fish and you are soon left with the core and torn up covering. They are also huge going through the guides.

    So I cut them off and make my own from trolling braid and make them big - just like in the backing. I no longer use the Gudebrod or Cortland hollow mono "Butt Leader" for this because it gets chewed up way too easy on barnicles, oyster bars, channel markers, coral etc. Trolling braid is much more durable.

    It is easy to do blind spliced loops in it and whip finish them onto the end of your flyline then pliobond or whatever your preference. I've added Karl's method of putting "Hard as Nails" on top of pliobond and it is very slick, can be redone easily and dries almost immediately. It does not harden up the connection either like you would think.

    To undo that connection takes 1/50th the time it usually takes with a factory loop with the backing loop deeply embedded into the line. You simply put both hands into either loop and yank hard, and the handshake comes undone - then do the same with the other loop if needed. No picking with fingernails at the backing, fraying it all to hell trying to get it off the thick, tiny fly line loop which is at least 6 times thicker (doubled like it is) than doubled trolling braid.

    You also don't need to do the double pass through with a half twist between to hold it together either. A regular handshake works, and they are way easier and faster to get apart.

    #3 leader wire will work in a pinch for micron 30# ( the smallest diameter I've used), if you cannot find #2. It will also work on Jerry Brown, Toro Tamer and a bunch of other hollow spectras and polyethelene hollows down to 60# JB and lighter Toro Tamer - which opens up really good.

    Rather than making a large loop and doubling the backing with surgeon's knot to help prevent cutting, you can easily insert a small piece of hollow backing (or anything else that will fit) into the inside of just the loop part of the backing after the first step where you turn it inside out, before doing the second step.

    So after you move the tag end down to the loop size you want - stick a magic marker at the junction of the loop and mark the junction. Then open the loop way up to where the main line is straight between both marks and beyond. Cut a length of backing an inch or two longer than between your marks, stick your bent leader into either mark and run it through the middle of the backing and out the other mark. Pull your short piece of backing back through with the wire and cut if off so both ends are completely inside the main line of the loop. Next, resize your loop back to where the magic marker spots are together again. Then go to step #2.

    Step two is the "catch" portion of the loop. Run the wire through the main line toward the loop, starting a half inch or so below where the tag ends. Come out the side right close to the junction, then pull the tag end back through. Snug up any slack like that video shows, milking the line away from that junction , pull the tag end out the side far enough to cut so it will suck completely back inside the main line when you milk the main line back toward the reel from the junction.

    Now you have a double-thick loop portion to limit cutting and without the doubled line and knot.

    Harder to describe that do. Like Bill, I do these ridiculously fast and it is the smoothest, strongest connection you can get. Conventional gear sport fishermen have been doing this stuff for decades and catching 900 pound tuna on them.

    The reason for inserting the short piece inside the loop before actually finishing the loop is because you can't run the leader wire in a circle inside hollow backing. It will keep poking out the side. The backing has to be straight.

    One tip. Bend the two ends of your leader wire more than 90 degrees for an inch or so. That way if you get carried away running the wire up into the backing the leader wire ends will not go up inside the line. Then you gotta start all over again.

    Cheers,
    Jim

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file