Stop the Hypocrisy!!

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Replies

  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    In this months edition of Saltwater Sportsman, our good friend on this forum, Broadbill Pro, writes a letter to the editor with the same title as this thread. I love ya Vinnie but you are way off base on this one!

    Ron,

    Well it appears I am a couple weeks behind on this one. I was told that the article was printed, but have yet to see the reply. If you can please email it to me. I don't subscribe and can not find a copy of the rag anywhere. None of our local stores that sell fishing mags seems to carry SWS??

    I'm feeling a bit like a character actor who is always defined by a single role. Though I am proud of that role, it is far from my only experience in the industry.

    I'll keep this short and as simple as possible. The intention of the article was to make one point, that catch and release as a directed fishery is unethical. Nothing in my comments points to bycatch, whether by recreational or commercial fishing. If a sailfish is released while recreational fishing for mackeral or even while fishing for a sailfish to eat I have no issue with it. Unintended bycatch is an unfortunate part of fishing.

    You my friend and probably the magazine make everything into a longline issue. Hell, cancer and world peace would probably be memories if longlining were banned by your standards. My vessels do not place a bait on a hook unless the intention is to harvest a fish.

    The hypocrisy remains with those who masquerade as conservationists while killing fish for entertainment. Someone on this forum once said, please stay on topic.
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Ron:

    Of course you are correct here, but I think what you are missing is that it would go a long way towards rectifying the hypocrisy accusation on C&R if there was admission to the real effect on the fishery. It may not be statistically significant, but the C&R guys act like they are doing the fish and the world a favor by burning lots of fuel while tormenting game fish on the lightest tackle practical, and denying that it could ever possible result in the killing and waste of the fish. We all know different. Hell, half the sails I accidentally catch while live baiting with circle hooks for desirable species (i.e. not sailfish) need extensive care to get swimming again, even though I'm using heavy gear to bring them in quickly. And I stopped using J-hooks just because of the incidental sails because the ratio was much higher then.

    Look at previous threads here on FS - there is some kind of sick hypocrisy in literally worshipping sailfish and damning anyone that takes one to smoke while simultaneously seeing how many you can hook, manhandle/chase down/break off in a single day, Look at the PTTS. Look at the SKA and the redfish tournaments. These are nothing more than floating circuses exploiting the fish.

    C&R guys have to get off the high horse. Just because they prefer their kill be out of sight and out of mind, and prefer expensive imported products, doesn't make them better than anyone else. The sooner they realize that, the sooner we can get this behind us and all be pulling together. C&R guys are an important conservation ally, but they are not the fish's saviours.

    The only part of this I disagree with is that Ron is correct. Even if he was, it's a different topic.
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Curiosity killed the cat, found the magazine at West Marine. Must say I was disappointed by the futile response from the Editor. Like Ron he reminded us that I was a Longliner which only confirms I know more about fish than most. Then he adds that all of last year 52,000 pounds of white marlin were killed by Longlines but fails to mention that 15,000 pounds were killed in just a few days by only the boats in the Ocean City tournament. That does not include days if not a week of pre-fishing by tournament boats or the other two or three months that White Marlin are targeted in the Northeast by hundreds of recreational vessels. Lastly he reinforces my assumption he is a hypocrite by using the glass house analogy when that was what prompted me to write in the first place.

    BTW, they also decided not to print my entire letter. Below is the rest of it.

    On another note, the recent approval of the Billfish Conservation Act does nothing to protect billfish and only diverts inexpensive protein to other Nations. HMS species cannot be managed unilaterally, the conservation effort of the United States alone does nothing except enhance production for other fishing Nations. A few years back, I told the IGFA Representative that was spearheading an effort to make the sale of billfish illegal in Hawaii that he was wasting his time, it appears I was correct.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    "The hypocrisy remains with those who masquerade as conservationists while killing fish for entertainment."

    Wow. So I guess in order to be a conservationist, you have to totally not fish (due to the killing of fish to bycatch mortality in a catch and release fishery)?

    What a bogus and elitist statement from someone who professes to know so much about our fisheries. The American recreational fishermen are on the front line of conservation and have proven time and again that they are the very best stewards of our nation's fisheries.

    Time to get off your high horse Amigo.
  • PortugalPortugal Posts: 24 Greenhorn
    It seems pretty simple: 1) if 52,000 lbs of white marlin were killed by PLL, that is way too much unnecessary killing; 2) if 15,000 lbs of white marlin were killed and discarded in a rec tournament, that is way too much unnecessary killing.

    Another thought on the rec mortality is: a majority of rec anglers exclusively release sailfish even though they are allowed to harvest many of the fish they catch. No one will know for sure if a released fish will survive. But isnt it more conservation minded to give up the meal and release the fish even if there is a 20% or 30% or whatever percentage chance that the fish will die? there is still a good shot it will live. More living fish is better for the species then fish taken to the smoker. According to BP's theory, he would not have a problem if the fish were taken to the smoker. It seems to me that its better for the species to skip the smoked fish dip and take the chance of the fish surviving.

    Then after my sailfish releases maybe I'll go to Mr Fish and buy some commercial caught tuna, make fish tacos, and everyone will be happy.
  • WaterDamageWaterDamage Posts: 49 Deckhand
    Portugal wrote: »
    It seems pretty simple: But isnt it more conservation minded to give up the meal and release the fish even if there is a 20% or 30% or whatever percentage chance that the fish will die? there is still a good shot it will live. More living fish is better for the species then fish taken to the smoker.

    Isn't even more conservation minded to not even go fishing in the first place, especially if your only intent is to enjoy watching animals fight to live, and perhaps die, strictly for your entertainment?

    The answer to your question is 'No'. C&R has no moral or ethical high ground over fishermen harvesting fish sustainably, whether it be commercial or recreational. In fact it could be argued to be more unethical, both due to the above-mentioned torment strictly for entertainment purposes, and the waste in natural resources including fuel. And I fully agree 15,000 lb of dead white marlin for cash, prizes, ego, and no food, is a disgrace.
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    No high horse here. I fully support fishing for consumption regardless of the species. In the day when one or two billfish were released per trip the theory that they have a better chance of survival had merit, but in todays world with 10 or 20 releases per day of sailfish for example the mortality far outweighs that of killing a legal limit and then either stop fishing or move on to another target species.

    A conservationist by definition would not be a hunter or fisherman. Targeting a species for catch and release while knowing that mortality is possible is irresponsible. Call yourself what you will, but killing fish for anything less than food is immoral. Regardless of the millions of fish I have caught including bycatch, not a single one was killed only to prove I could.
  • Fishin Blue WaterFishin Blue Water Posts: 219 Deckhand
    I was under the impression that the whites killed in the WMO were donated to local charities and eaten. Wouldn't this be considered the most ethical use of the fish by those that see C&R as immoral? How could one argue that, on one hand, C&R is torturing a fish and we should only fish for what we plan to harvest then, on the other hand, use a kill tournament as an example of recs taking too many fish?
  • PortugalPortugal Posts: 24 Greenhorn
    WD: there is no question that stopping all fishing, rec and commercial, is best for the species and most conservationist. Is that what you are advocating for? You appear to be commercial, so I doubt that this is what you want since you may make your living from the sea. If you're not advocating for a shut down of fishing then why ask the question? If your only point is that fish die when caught by recs, then i agree with you and there is no debate.


    Also, you did not answer my question. You answered a question about morality and ethics, which were not referenced in my comments. All I said is that it is better for the species to be released then it is to be harvested for food. Is that not true? The difference between rec and commercial is that a rec will release fish they can legally keep and a commercial guy will not. With the assumption that both recs and commercials are going to continue to fish, it is better for the species to be released by a rec guy.

    And your comments about torment, ethics, etc are not necessary or on point to my comments. Everyone knows that when a fish is on a hook it is struggling for its life. I don't need anyone, especially a guy that kills fish for profit, to speak to my morals and ethics. And I do not challenge your morals or ethics if you commercial fish within the regulations that are imposed on us.

    Finally, do you also agree that 52,000 lbs of dead white marlin from PLL is way too much?
  • WaterDamageWaterDamage Posts: 49 Deckhand
    Portugal wrote: »
    You appear to be commercial, so I doubt that this is what you want since you may make your living from the sea.

    All I said is that it is better for the species to be released then it is to be harvested for food. Is that not true? The difference between rec and commercial is that a rec will release fish they can legally keep and a commercial guy will not. With the assumption that both recs and commercials are going to continue to fish, it is better for the species to be released by a rec guy.

    Finally, do you also agree that 52,000 lbs of dead white marlin from PLL is way too much?

    Portugal: It is quite apparent that you have not read this thread - just perhaps the last page or so. For starters, I am a recreational fisherman. Have been for over 40 years. I have never held a commercial license and never intend to. And stopping all fishing is what the NGO's want and is a preservationist agenda, not a conservationist agenga - those two get confused all the time these days.

    I think you are looking at the point of release as a moment of truth. What about what happens before and after that? This fish is tired, and may die. Was it worth your ego, all that gas, and the fish's life so that you, as you say, can release the fish and go shop at Publix for your imported seafood? Or better to not risk its life unless you intend to harvest, and rely less on foreign countries that as a whole have alot lower conservation standards?

    And of course 52,000 lb of dead white marlin is atrocious. It's just that it's 52,000 lb of dead marlin that was a result of harvesting other fish sold for food is alot easier for me to swallow vs. 15,000 lb of dead white marlin killed solely for ego.
  • Capt EasyCapt Easy Posts: 203 Officer

    And of course 52,000 lb of dead white marlin is atrocious. It's just that it's 52,000 lb of dead marlin that was a result of harvesting other fish sold for food is alot easier for me to swallow vs. 15,000 lb of dead white marlin killed solely for ego.

    The 52,000 pounds of dead Marlin could and should have been sold for food along with the millions of pounds of Swordfish Tuna and Mahi. Forcing the commercial guys to release them dead is just another useless form of political correctness.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    "A conservationist by definition would not be a hunter or fisherman. Targeting a species for catch and release while knowing that mortality is possible is irresponsible. Call yourself what you will, but killing fish for anything less than food is immoral."

    Yes, I would definitely say you are on a high horse looking down upon anyone who chooses to pursue America's favorite pastime as "immoral".

    Your definition of conservationist means nothing to anyone but yourself. The fact remains that is is the people who hunt and fish who are on the front lines of conservation, providing funding and effort to promote the well-being of America's wildlife, often with much more success than the enviro, anti-fishing, anti-hunting preservationists who only want to see the outlawing of our sports.

    Calling even catch and release fishing "irresponsible" is EXACTLY the type of logic that will be used to completely outlaw ALL fishing, as once bringing fish back home for our own consumption is banned, then the bycatch mortality from Catch and Release fisheries will be declared "Immoral" and used for justification for outlawing of ALL fishing.

    You have every right to live your life as you see fit Broadbill-Pro, but please spare us your elitist propaganda - we also have the right to live our lives, and to teach our children our morals and values as we see fit, even though they may be different from yours. That's especially poignant now, as it seems your current views on the subject are apparently tainted by your guilt of being involved in the death of "millions of fish".

    Capt. Thomas J. Hilton
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Assuming that catch and release will never go away, yes I agree that releasing fish gives them a better chance of survival. That is common sense and not worthy of debate. But, that is far from the topic of this thread. Sport-fisherman seem to define a conservationist as a person that does not kill all he could have. By that definition we could also include **** as a conservationist (example).

    Let's not dismiss that the 52,000 was a yearly total by Longline and the 15,000 were killed in just 4 days by only vessels that entered the tournament. It does not take a calculator to see that recreational fishing is the primary source of white marlin fatality in the North Atlantic. If we examined sailfish I would not be surprised if recreationals killed x10 more than longlines. One more bit of information, for several years including 2013 the white marlin is on the list of fish being considered for endangered species status.
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Mr. Hilton,

    I revel in the fact that you now feel the wrath that you have imposed on others for so long. It must swell your gut that light now shines on the abuse of the resource by recreational fisherman. My stand is firm, kill what can be eaten and move on. No guilt here, I never wasted anything unless I was forced to by the regulations you supported. Can you say the same?

    Please don't think me the fool, I understand perfectly well that I am playing with fire. Your comment about the possible results of saying these things out loud may certainly become a reality someday. Am I to have sympathy while you and the like continue to pound as hard as possible on the commercial sector? You guys dont know when to let up and now the fight is coming to you. You bet PEW, CBD and the rest of them would love to have me in their corner. As long as I must defend honest law abiding fisherman from people like you the light will continue to get brighter on recreational fishing.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    Broadbill,
    You obviously don't have a clue - I believe the commercial fishermen certainly have a place at the table, and certainly feel for the commercial fishermen who have been thrown under the bus with Lubchenco's catch shares program up in the NE. What a legacy she leaves behind - the total destruction of America's oldest commercial fishing fleet.

    It is the commercial (and recreational) captains who have acted as useful idiots for the extreme anti-fishing, pro-catch share environmentalist corporations that I have issues with - they cite their action supposedly in the name of "conservation" but in reality in the name of "profit and greed".

    Your stance is very much in line with the end game of outlawing all fishing (except of course those engaged in bringing food to the "millions of non-boat owning public" lol) and you don't even know that you are already in PEW's, EDF's and the other anti-fishing NGO's corner. You fit in quite nicely in fact, already acting as THEIR useful idiot.

    Take your elitist morals and go to your therapy sessions to deal with the guilt that you have heaped upon yourself for your actions in murdering those millions of fish and leave the honest, law abiding, true conservationists alone. I am teaching my son and daughters to hunt and fish just as I did, my father did, and our forefathers have done for generations. Whether it's for food or for fun, it's really none of your **** business Amigo.

    Good luck,

    Capt. Thomas J. Hilton
  • WaterDamageWaterDamage Posts: 49 Deckhand
    Tom: Letting preservationists drive us from sustainable commercial and recreational take to C&R is EXACTLY what us recreational fishermen must fight tooth and nail, because once that is accomplished, the end game that stops C&R (and all fishing) using the 'tormenting fish for entertainment' argument comes our way.

    But by then you'll have no commercials or family fishermen left to help you fight the cause, as they'll have been thrown under the bus not so long before.

    Choose carefully your enemies. I absolutely will try to help hold commercial take ACL's, gear, and restrictions to sustainable levels and methods, and try to make sure us recs get access and our share. I will never throw sustainable-method commercial guys under the bus. They are our brothers in arms when it comes to the extremists at Pew, Sierra, EDF, etc., that would end fishing altogether (and a life of eating tofu).
  • I keep seeing it printed as 'fac't in this thread, but have never seen it published elsewhere: "the 15,000 were KILLED in just 4 days by only vessels that entered the tournament". Anyone
    posting this line care to offer a link that doccuments this?

    "defend honest law abiding fisherman".....Most Recreational Fishermen I know are just that, including the ones that practice Catch and Release.....Glad to hear your defending us!!!!!
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    I fully support you teaching your children to fish and hunt responsibly, as I have.

    You have told me to go away several times, yet you continue to respond. Surely your "amigos" have told you by now to leave it alone so that the dirt stays under the rug. My issue is not with those who "mind their own business", if you would adhere to your own advice we would not be having this conversation.

    Waterdamage is correct, we should be heading off the enviros together and I can certainly get onboard with that, but not when I must continually watch my back.
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    I keep seeing it printed as 'fac't in this thread, but have never seen it published elsewhere: "the 15,000 were KILLED in just 4 days by only vessels that entered the tournament". Anyone
    posting this line care to offer a link that doccuments this?

    "defend honest law abiding fisherman".....Most Recreational Fishermen I know are just that, including the ones that practice Catch and Release.....Glad to hear your defending us!!!!!

    The law allows us to do many things that are unethical, why is catch and release less so than longlining? Both are legal. Thus the topic of this thread "Hypocrisy".

    The #15,000 comes from +200 fish (est.) dying post release. No different than the estimate of 52,000 by longliners. Nobody weighed either.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    Tom: Letting preservationists drive us from sustainable commercial and recreational take to C&R is EXACTLY what us recreational fishermen must fight tooth and nail, because once that is accomplished, the end game that stops C&R (and all fishing) using the 'tormenting fish for entertainment' argument comes our way.

    But by then you'll have no commercials or family fishermen left to help you fight the cause, as they'll have been thrown under the bus not so long before.

    Choose carefully your enemies. I absolutely will try to help hold commercial take ACL's, gear, and restrictions to sustainable levels and methods, and try to make sure us recs get access and our share. I will never throw sustainable-method commercial guys under the bus. They are our brothers in arms when it comes to the extremists at Pew, Sierra, EDF, etc., that would end fishing altogether (and a life of eating tofu).

    Waterdamage,
    It is fairly easy to spot and choose carefully the enemies of recreational fishing when they spout sensationalist, untrue propaganda such as "A conservationist by definition would not be a hunter or fisherman. Targeting a species for catch and release while knowing that mortality is possible is irresponsible. Call yourself what you will, but killing fish for anything less than food is immoral."

    I am for exposing the truth - not sweeping anything under the rug Amigo.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,279 Admiral
    Mr. Hilton,

    I revel in the fact that you now feel the wrath that you have imposed on others for so long. It must swell your gut that light now shines on the abuse of the resource by recreational fisherman. My stand is firm, kill what can be eaten and move on. No guilt here, I never wasted anything unless I was forced to by the regulations you supported. Can you say the same?

    Please don't think me the fool, I understand perfectly well that I am playing with fire. Your comment about the possible results of saying these things out loud may certainly become a reality someday. Am I to have sympathy while you and the like continue to pound as hard as possible on the commercial sector? You guys dont know when to let up and now the fight is coming to you. You bet PEW, CBD and the rest of them would love to have me in their corner. As long as I must defend honest law abiding fisherman from people like you the light will continue to get brighter on recreational fishing.
    Truth hurts, I've always said as long as the science is in the recs favor, it's the gospel, if it don't put them in a good light then it is all smoke and mirrors.

    Bout time they paid the piper, plus interest.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,279 Admiral
    You can tell when Tom is defensive and losing by the use of amigo...lol

    Acme is just a product of some pay for license Captains course, thinks it gives him some cred.

    Waterdamage is spot on, I know I sling shizz and provoke but you and us aren't the real threat to fishing.

    There are bigger fish to fry(pun intended). Unfortunally this here sniping will be the norm until it's too late.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Captain Art Cannon, Cause anybody with $1,000 and basic reading skills can be a Captain these days, without a doubt!! .

    Yeah, in the 'good old days' you did not need reading skills, medical exams or to be able to pass a drug test..........

    I've been fishing the Florida East Coast waters as a Recreational angler since 1974, so my "Cred" reguarding my region is from time on the water.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    You can tell when Tom is defensive and losing by the use of amigo...lol

    Acme is just a product of some pay for license Captains course, thinks it gives him some cred.

    Waterdamage is spot on, I know I sling shizz and provoke but you and us aren't the real threat to fishing.

    There are bigger fish to fry(pun intended). Unfortunally this here sniping will be the norm until it's too late.

    ANumber1,
    Yeah, you got me Amigo - I certainly lost the argument all right. Recreational fishing is irresponsible, immoral, and anti-conservationist. You have a GREAT point.

    I wonder sometimes if you guys really read what you post.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,279 Admiral
    Yeah, in the 'good old days' you did not need reading skills, medical exams or to be able to pass a drug test..........

    I've been fishing the Florida East Coast waters as a Recreational angler since 1974, so my "Cred" reguarding my region is from time on the water.
    In the good old days you took your test with the Coast Guard..... Not everyone passed..
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    ANumber1,
    Yeah, you got me Amigo - I certainly lost the argument all right. Recreational fishing is irresponsible, immoral, and anti-conservationist. You have a GREAT point.

    I wonder sometimes if you guys really read what you post.

    You know that is not what I am saying.

    In my opinion, directed fishing without intent to harvest (catch and release) inflicts unnecessary suffering and a risk of mortality to animals that is not justifiable in that the motive is unworthy. You condem me for legally killing fish for consumption and then also condem me for protecting fish from unnecessary harassment and death. Is it your opinion that bragging rights is reason enough to kill an animal? If so then so be it, we agree to disagree.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    B-P,
    "A conservationist by definition would not be a hunter or fisherman. Targeting a species for catch and release while knowing that mortality is possible is irresponsible. Call yourself what you will, but killing fish for anything less than food is immoral."

    Your words speak for themselves, and they provide ammunition for anti-fishing groups such as PEW, EDF, and PETA to justify outlawing ALL fishing, even Catch and Release due to its inhumane treatment of animals. Your words smell heavily of enviro elitism and display a total disregard for all Americans' fishing/hunting rights and heritage which goes back centuries. Fishing is a SPORT, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Fishing is mentioned often in the Bible - strange the Bible doesn't prohibit fishing due to the unfair and inhumane treatment of the fish, but we are to listen to a former commercial fisherman regarding his saintly, politically-correct views on the subject now? Yeah, right.

    I guess you are also against the rodeos held across the country that use the animals for "sport" and that often those same animals are injured or killed as a result. Circuses are often to blame for animals being injured/killed purely for the enjoyment of humans - I guess I'll see you out front holding a protest sign at the next circus I take my family to?

    What about the animals/birds that are wounded and go off and die and therefore not able to be "consumed" by humans when people go hunting for "sport". Should we outlaw all hunting since it inflicts unnecessary suffering and a risk of mortality to animals that is not justifiable in that the motive is unworthy? This is especially poignant now in these times where we no longer "need" to go hunt in order to put food on our tables - we hunt because we enjoy the sporting experience. We hunt because we care for the animals/birds that we are hunting - more has been done in the name of conservation by hunting groups than all of the enviro.orgs combined. Just look at the millions of acres of prime waterfowl habitat secured from funding derived from the duck stamp.

    I'm sure the folks at PETA would welcome you with open arms, as there is precisely ZERO that differentiates their stance from yours Amigo.

    To be clear, I generally do not fish strictly catch and release and more often than not I prefer to keep much of what I catch to bring home to eat. But, if I decide that I would like to participate in a tournament that has conservation measures implemented to prevent overharvesting the fish unnecessarily, then I certainly have the right to do so. I do not advocate what I see coming down the pike, much with the same type of verbage that you produce, in that the end-game by the year 2020 is for the large majority of recreational fishing be catch and release only, and that we value the "fishing experience" instead of bringing the fish home to eat; http://www.fish2020.org/

    Again, your statement; "A conservationist by definition would not be a hunter or fisherman" flies in the face of what most hunters and fishermen already know and practice. What would be really great would be if Teddy Roosevelt was still alive, I would like to see you say that to HIM to his face. He was one of our very best conservationists in our country's history.



    Capt. Thomas J. Hilton
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Tom,
    There is not a person on this planet that enjoys fishing or hunting more than I do and probably very few who spend more in that quest. My moral stance not to kill anything unless it is destined for the dinner table is the bar I have set for myself and anyone who fishes on my boats. Each time I leave port a fish or many fish suffer. We release undersize fish and unwanted species all the time, some survive and many don't. In some way you do not see this as different from targeting a species with no intention to keep it, yet knowing that there will be mortality such a marlin and sailfish tournaments.

    Very few of your comments do not include the fact that I am a commercial fisherman, somehow in your mixed up logic that puts you on a higher moral ground. Yet you continue to tell us that it is fine to kill fish for "your entertainment" but are quick to condem me for killing fish while targeting a specific species for harvest. Reminding us that I am a longliner does not make your argument stronger or discredit my opinion that killing fish for no purpose other than bragging is unjustified. You have been brainwashed to believe that commercials are the root to all evil and that each time you experience poor fishing or increased regulations that we are to blame. This only indicates that you do not understand the issue that you comment on. You are the typical sportfishing hypocrit that I wrote about in the Saltwater Sportman magazine and your defense much like John Brownlee is only that I am a longliner or that Teddy Roosevelt also killed animals for a photo.
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    B.P. your saying that you do not go out there to pet them.. :) ???.. I do agree that most people that grew up with "bambi" or "Finding Nemo" mentalities will never understand what a commercial fishermen does or the time that they spend on the water to make the $ they do. They will also never understand that the amount of commercial boats in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world is like looking at a shack next to a skyscraper.. A true conservationist is someone who takes care of what we got and still understands that you have to eat or you can become a rabbit and eat grass.. we should all learn from the past on overfishing some areas and also how to deal with bycatch but the feds and our state governments have rules.. seems most sport boats also on Outdoor Life or espn show that you catch em' fast (well the mates catch them and someone else reels them in.. ) then they cut them off with 7' of 60 - 80lb leader.. (this really pisses me off ) the care we take to have such an awesome food source or sporting has really went downhill on respect for the fish stocks.. BUT if we look at it on teaching people to release properly without running the fish into the back or side of the boat multiple times for a gopro shot then we will get some where.. commercial and rec.'s better get their stuff together.. all these boats that brag 32 fish , 36 fish.. a day .. they should ask them at the end of the day.. where are the hooks you got out??? funny how it has only taken about 100 years to start screwing up what nature took many years to give us and most do not respect it.. or each other.. I hope this gives people something to think about..
  • broadbill-probroadbill-pro Posts: 68 Deckhand
    Ted, I don't buy into the loons who say there is no reason to kill an animal for food when we can go to the grocery and buy it. Surely these people can not see past their nose and do not rationalize that the grocery is full of dead animals. The days that I eat what I have shot or hooked are days that chickens and cows get pardoned.

    It burns my *** that guys like Tom, Ron and Brownlee dismiss the wrong doing of their sector by indicating I am a longliner. No doubt these are intelligent men without an answer to provide us so they post remarks unrelated to the issue in an attempt to derail the thread. FYI - I didn't start this thread.

    Catch and release is a gray area in the law. Regulations say we can harvest one marlin or sailfish of a specific size, yet we can hook and release without limit. If one fish per day is an acceptable limit in regard to the determined sustainability of a fishery, where does the release of 20 with a 20% post release mortality put conservation?
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