Why are gun-related death rates in the US so much higher than in similar countries

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  • John1352John1352 Posts: 232 Officer
    To solve gun violence you want to ban guns? What are you going to take away to stop ****? A lot more rapes per year than gun deaths. How many kids did Sandusky destroy? Didn't hear about him getting castrated. That's right, he was put in prison. How about enforcing the current laws around firearms. I am temporary living in Illinois and all you have to do us look at this state as a model on how additional laws don't work.
  • FloydFloyd N. TampaPosts: 1,062 Officer
    Why are gun-related death rates in the US so much higher than in similar countries ?

    My guess is that if you took out the statistics for gang-related and deaths during the commission of a felony you would find that the US stats aren't all that bad when compared to other countries. If you also disregarded the stats for the welfare families and their progeny the US might come up looking pretty good when compared with other countries. Since most of us don't live in areas that are riddled with the above groups we don't see the effects of all that in our own neighborhood.
    Recording from Moderators annual meeting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuABc9ZNtrA
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 2,327 Captain
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    If more firearms equates to a safer country, the United States should be the safest country in the world. Sadly, that does not seem to be the reality.
    We are the safest country in the world. When was the last time we were attacked???? Sorry another loss for mr.

    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." is a quote by Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II.
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    it takes blood to stop Tyranny. Don't believe me ask the countries that Americans have shed their blood for
    169304.GIF
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Officer
    Yup it would be awfully hard to invade us, if not because of our geographical location which is negligible these days but because of our armed populous. Makes us safe against a foreign threat for sure... just not ourselves.
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • Gary S. ColecchioGary S. Colecchio Posts: 24,922 Officer
    drkptt wrote: »
    I almost made the same mistake and typed 'infectious' disease. I think you'd agree that the CDC's mission covers cancer, diabetes, arthritis, birth defects, etc.

    They also study traumatic injury. I see no problem with the CDC researching gunshot wounds. This would include emergency response and treatment methods. It would also include surveys of the frequency of this type of trauma, which would impact staffing, training, and equipment decisions in the same way that the frequency and severity of auto accidents is studied. Yet the NRA's political threat to the CDC's funding has a chilling effect on studies that ultimately save lives and may not be used to promote gun control regulations.

    I'm going to disagree with you not because I think you are wrong in that those things may not be necessary, but I don't believe that mission creep is what any agency should practice to grow it self. And as you know it was established to combat mosquito born infections of malaria. In fact, I would guess that most people would not guess that they did all those things and were instead monitoring global health conditions on big TV monitors looking for geometrically multiplying contagions as portrayed in the popular fiction.

    I'm not going to ascribe any motivation to Mr. Dickey as Salon (which sells magazines doing) is doing. Instead I will give him the benefit of the doubt because I would have done the same thing in his position without encouragement or lobbying .

    As far as the CDC effecting or influencing local governing outside of communicable disease, like trauma care I see none. Maybe Dr. Kayak Joe or Dr. Ray or Dr. Scrubs or Nurse Holt can point to it?
    "If I can't win, I won't play." - Doris Colecchio.

    "Well Gary, the easiest way to look tall is to stand in a room full of short people." - Curtis Bostick

    "All these forums, with barely any activity, are like a neglected old cemetery that no one visits anymore."- anonymouse
  • frankfrank Posts: 12,231 AG
    got ants? wrote: »
    While the actual percentage of blacks to whites is smaller, and the percentage of crimes of blacks versus whites is higher, then the per capita is a greater number in blacks versus whites. That IS exactly what that study showed.

    This is not eschewing facts nor numbers, but plainly stating them.

    exactly
    whites commit more violent crimes than blacks
    more homicides and rapes are committed by whites than blacks
    and as far as mass murdering shooters
    well, just look at the news
    No political signature
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Officer
    Not per capita though... therein lies your scapegoat.
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • frankfrank Posts: 12,231 AG
    no, not per capita (except mass killing)
    but the actual numbers are higher
    No political signature
  • StillinscrubsStillinscrubs Posts: 1,844 Officer
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    In conclusion, the lower death rate by firearms is because they have fewer firearms?

    Is a death by firearm different than death by stabbing or beating? Is intimidation by the physically superior over the meek better than being equally deadly?
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Officer
    grady30wa wrote: »
    Guns weren't designed to shoot little kids either.

    Nice disclaimer. Guns were designed to kill... period. They are not noisemakers or used to put up flowers on parade floats.

    I own firearms, and I want to keep them. My firearms will never be used in a crime, until they can verify that with everyone that owns them, then there will be a question of banning and/or regulation. Buying them simply must not be as easy as a drivers license, a credit card and 10 questions. The constitution says NOTHING about restricting access to firearms, just that you have a right to keep and bear them, once you acquire them.

    I think anyone with a history of behavioral problems such as HI/SI, Depressive d/o, Schizo-affected d/o, or other hx: of violent behavior of whatever variety should be banned from acquiring firearms. The question is, how do you know? Those who sell firearms should be able to access records protected under HIPPA, and the personal sale of firearms should be severely restricted.
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • gandrfabgandrfab Posts: 19,975 AG
    The personal sale of firearms is severely restricted.
    In the locations with the highest death rate from firearms, and it seem as the restrictions grew so did the rate of death.
    :BUNNY gestapo

  • StillinscrubsStillinscrubs Posts: 1,844 Officer
    got ants? wrote: »
    I am a proponent for strengthening current gun laws, but not stripping rights from law abiding citizens. A lot of those who use these studies in favor of taking rights away from us law abiders, use these stats incongruent to boast their agendas.

    I think most honest law abiding gun owners would agree with strengthening current laws, rather than an all out ban.

    Things I would like to see changed...
    The so-called "gun show loophole" Yes it adds a bit of frustration, but if even private sales were documented, a large portion of illegal firearms would cease to exist.

    ommits a firearm crime, one should stay locked up forever. Not this let you out in 5, 10, 15 years....

    Upon what evidence do you base your opinion? Would a gun law have stopped any tragedy since and including columbine? Seriously, you have an opinion, upon what have you based it?
  • StillinscrubsStillinscrubs Posts: 1,844 Officer
    frank wrote: »
    exactly
    whites commit more violent crimes than blacks
    more homicides and rapes are committed by whites than blacks
    and as far as mass murdering shooters
    well, just look at the news

    Actually I think it is Chinese closely followed by Indians, dot not feather.
  • FibberMckeeFibberMckee Posts: 12,837 Officer
    Interesting Q? Many sources say blacks commit about 50%, more or less, of all violent crimes in U.S. Also that blacks are only about 12% of the population & are much more likely to use guns to commit felonies.
    frank wrote: »
    exactly
    whites commit more violent crimes than blacks
    more homicides and rapes are committed by whites than blacks
    and as far as mass murdering shooters
    well, just look at the news

    Researchers have estimated how many murders U.S. children typically see in movies, on TV & via digital games. It is a ridiculously high number, even by HS graduation & just keeps on climbing. You surf thru all the TV channels today & violent crimes are the most common theme. Watch the news & religious whack jobs are wrapping themselves up in high explosives & blowing up their own places of worship, demented adolescents are shooting up innocent kids in school & drunk right-wing radio show fans are setting their neighborhood on fire so they can pick off firemen.
  • Geezer SquidGeezer Squid Posts: 46 Deckhand
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    The US is far ahead of other, similar nations. The United States has 10.2 gun deaths per 100,000 people. That is about 8X the death rate of comparable countries and please do not compare the USA to El Salvador, Swaziland or Mexico. We rank 9th overall, and are the 1st modern or western nation on the list.

    Are you sure it's as bad as you think?

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/listening_to_the_latest_media.html
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    Phishbohn wrote: »
    Nice disclaimer. Guns were designed to kill... period. They are not noisemakers or used to put up flowers on parade floats.

    I own firearms, and I want to keep them. My firearms will never be used in a crime, until they can verify that with everyone that owns them, then there will be a question of banning and/or regulation. Buying them simply must not be as easy as a drivers license, a credit card and 10 questions. The constitution says NOTHING about restricting access to firearms, just that you have a right to keep and bear them, once you acquire them.

    I think anyone with a history of behavioral problems such as HI/SI, Depressive d/o, Schizo-affected d/o, or other hx: of violent behavior of whatever variety should be banned from acquiring firearms. The question is, how do you know? Those who sell firearms should be able to access records protected under HIPPA, and the personal sale of firearms should be severely restricted.


    And forks are made to fill your mouth with food. Do they automatically make you fat by just having them in your kitchen drawer?


    I think everybody who owns (or wants to own) a firearm should be required to have a CWP, with a full background screening. But I don't think individual firearms should be registered. Makes confiscation too easy.

    If I am cleared to own firearms, then I should be able to own whatever and how many of whatever that I want.

    Also, if a person without a CWP buys a gun from a private seller, then the buyer is breaking the law the minute he/she takes possession. Not the seller.
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Officer
    So what you are saying is when the personal sale of firearms is restricted, then people somehow go berserk and start shooting people more? I need to see a more clinical correlation.
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 25,913 AG
    grady30wa wrote: »
    And forks are made to fill your mouth with food. Do they automatically make you fat by just having them in your kitchen drawer?


    I think everybody who owns (or wants to own) a firearm should be required to have a CWP, with a full background screening. But I don't think individual firearms should be registered. Makes confiscation too easy.

    If I am cleared to own firearms, then I should be able to own whatever and how many of whatever that I want.

    Also, if a person without a CWP buys a gun from a private seller, then the buyer is breaking the law the minute he/she takes possession. Not the seller.

    grady - why does anyone need a CWP? Why not just open carry for everyone?
    Vote for the other candidate
  • gandrfabgandrfab Posts: 19,975 AG
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    grady - why does anyone need a CWP? Why not just open carry for everyone?

    The powers that be continue to chip away at our freedoms. That was one of the chips that got chopped.
    :BUNNY gestapo

  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    Conclusions from a Harvard study:
    • murder rates have nothing to do with gun ownership. They have to do with socio-economic and cultural factors.
    • more guns equal less violent crimes


    Facts:
    • Denmark: half the gun ownership of Norway and twice the murder rate
    • Russia: 1/9th the gun ownership of Norway and 2500% the murder rate







    Demographic patterns:
    Contrary to what should be the case if more guns equal more
    death, there are no “consistent indications of a link between
    gun ownership and criminal or violent behavior by owners;” in
    fact, gun ownership is “higher among whites than among
    blacks, higher among middle‐aged people than among young
    people, higher among married than among unmarried people,
    higher among richer people than poor”—all “patterns that are
    the reverse of the way in which criminal behavior is distributed.”
    91
    These conclusions are reinforced by focusing on patterns of
    African‐American homicide. Per capita, African‐American
    murder rates are much higher than the murder rate for
    whites.92 If more guns equal more death, and fewer guns equal
    less, one might assume gun ownership is higher among African‐
    Americans than among whites, but in fact African‐
    American gun ownership is markedly lower than white gun
    ownership.93


    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    grady - why does anyone need a CWP? Why not just open carry for everyone?



    I believe concealed carry is a more effective deterrent. If you required everyone to open carry, it's too easy for a bad guy to choose his victims...the ones who are unarmed.
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    Phishbohn wrote: »
    So what you are saying is when the personal sale of firearms is restricted, then people somehow go berserk and start shooting people more? I need to see a more clinical correlation.

    I am not sure how you come to that conclusion from what I posted.
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Officer
    grady30wa wrote: »
    And forks are made to fill your mouth with food. Do they automatically make you fat by just having them in your kitchen drawer?


    I think everybody who owns (or wants to own) a firearm should be required to have a CWP, with a full background screening. But I don't think individual firearms should be registered. Makes confiscation too easy.

    If I am cleared to own firearms, then I should be able to own whatever and how many of whatever that I want.

    Also, if a person without a CWP buys a gun from a private seller, then the buyer is breaking the law the minute he/she takes possession. Not the seller.

    if a gun kills it's served it's function, if a fork puts food in your mouth it has served it's function as well. The consequences of one is a bit more dire than the other.

    Well we agree to some extent, that the acquisition of firearms is where we probably need to start. What I don't agree with you on is once you are cleared you can buy as many as you want, ad infinitum. I think each instance of purchase required the same check. You don't know what could adversely affect the mentality of an individual in a given time frame. If you can clear each time, collect away.

    Private sale of firearms will be difficult to restrict, but a way must be found. If you don't hold the seller responsible then he must have access to the same data that's protected by HIPPA... which renders HIPPA pretty much ineffective. A private "dealer" might be able to obtain a license to obtain the needed data. But a private citizen won't be able to discern whether they are selling to a good guy or a serial killer. If the burden of legality lay with the buyer, hell if he is a serial killer saying he's liable for buying a firearm illegally is a non-sequitur.
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • PhishbohnPhishbohn Posts: 2,978 Officer
    grady30wa wrote: »
    I am not sure how you come to that conclusion from what I posted.


    I wasn't referring to your post Grady. it was gandfab's post. I'll try to be more diligent in attributing my response to whom they were intended.
    Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the face. - Mike Tyson.
  • drkpttdrkptt Posts: 1,927 Officer
    grady30wa wrote: »
    ...

    Also, if a person without a CWP buys a gun from a private seller, then the buyer is breaking the law the minute he/she takes possession. Not the seller.

    I've never heard this. In Florida? What law?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 8,549 Admiral
    Phish, Two points. First, blacks outnumber non-latin whites less than 2:1 in DC ( http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/11000.html ). Second, HIPAA, most commonly know as a federal health care data privacy regulation, has nothing at all to do with the type of information that is collected at the time of gun registration (outside of a person's name/address and possible mental health/drug issues -- data that is being collected already by gun dealers). Take care...Mike
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    drkptt wrote: »
    I've never heard this. In Florida? What law?


    I was proposing a new law that would operate that way. I was not citing existing law
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • gandrfabgandrfab Posts: 19,975 AG
    gandrfab wrote: »
    The personal sale of firearms is severely restricted.
    In the locations with the highest death rate from firearms, and it seem as the restrictions grew so did the rate of death.
    Phishbohn wrote: »
    So what you are saying is when the personal sale of firearms is restricted, then people somehow go berserk and start shooting people more? I need to see a more clinical correlation.
    .

    That was many posts apart.
    No, the criminal have less fear of their victims.






    Phishbohn wrote: »
    I wasn't referring to your post Grady. it was gandfab's post. I'll try to be more diligent in attributing my response to whom they were intended.
    :BUNNY gestapo

  • Pescatoral PursuitPescatoral Pursuit Posts: 5,065 Officer
    Why not? Most nation states have more of a history of killing themselves off than the United States through civil warfare, and political and racial genocide.

    When viewed accurately within that truer perspective, it is miraculous that the youngest, most violent and powerful nation the planet has ever seen, with the largest armed population doesn't experience more domestic violence incorporating those weapons.

    The restraint and respect Americans have for that right of armament and each other without the restriction of government is a testament to the foresight of the people who designed it by establishing their faith in them. It has not failed and will not so as long as that faith remains.
    cuda-title2_zpsb81e4f1d.jpg
    greggl wrote: »
    Strive for self-sacrificial levels of empathy and sympathy. We are only set free by becoming the scapegoat, or sin eater', rather than picking a target and 'throwing stones.'
    nuevowavo wrote:
    Think you're pretty clever? Think again. Time for a break.
    :rotflmao

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