I've had it with Sage...

mastercastermastercaster Posts: 1,257 Officer
Had my xi2 break (again) in the butt section on a fish. I've never had another one of my rods break on fish (no I don't high-stick) over 10+ years.

That's not my issue though.

Mailed it to them for repairs that cost me the shipping fees there and then $50 for the repair. It took them 1 1/2 months to get to it and call me about payment. After they get my money they will start on the repair which is estimated to take another month.

This is complete BS, I use lifetime warranty gear so it can be replaced / repaired in a reasonable amount of time. For an $800 rod and $50 fee they should be shipping me a brand new rod immediately like every other decent company out there.

St Croix, Scott and TFO are top notch when it comes to this in my experience.

I'm done with Sage, I'll be selling that thing when I get it back.
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Replies

  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 2,696 Captain
    I still have four Sage rods and some of them have been back to them more than once in a year's time.... My usual routine is to contact them first to find out what the current warranty service rate is, then write a letter enclosing a check for that amount with the rod and send it in. That's worked well for the past sixteen years or so - but I must admit that other outfits are cheaper and a bit quicker (the last rod we broke was a TFO and I was pleasantly surprised at the relatively low cost and quick turnaround....

    Being able to send a broken rod out under a warranty if far preferable to having to build a replacement rod (I've done that on more than one occasion with spinning or plug rods but fly rods take a bit more time to build so I've come to rely on the fly rod manufacturer....). As a result I've pretty much quit building fly rods......
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • ShadowcastShadowcast Posts: 1,007 Officer
    Orvis....25 year warranty...guaranteed.....very easy to deal with.
    Capt. Jon Bull
    Shadowcast Charters
    Ankona Boats Sales Rep
    2018 Tavernier 17.....Coming Soon!!
    www.shadowcastcharters.com
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Broke a 12wt Xi2 earlier this year leadering a **** solo (high sticked - my fault). Sent it in with the $50 check and got a new one back about 3 months later. Only problem was that the rod they sent be back had a fighting grip, which mine did not. Sent it back again and took another 6 weeks or so to get another replacement. They used to be incredible. My first fly rod was a 890rplx that I was given as a gift when I was 13. I managed to break that rod at least once a year for the next five years. Every time I sent it in, I got it back within a couple weeks with no questions asked. Don't even think they charged me back then. They aint what they used to be!
  • MistermtdMistermtd Posts: 73 Deckhand
    I've broken Sage and TFO rods. TFO's service is far faster.
  • NaClH20NaClH20 Posts: 78 Deckhand
    What are yall doing to break so many rods? I've only broken one fly rod in 15 years of fly fishing and it was pretty much my fault, I tried to use the tip to get a snag out of some oysters...
  • YakFlyYakFly Posts: 12 Greenhorn
    I'm glad to hear everyone talking good things about TFO. In a matter of 3 weeks I've managed to brake both my 8wt and 10wt rods. Looks like I will be chasing the bulls on spinning gear this fall. TFO warranty is no fault and a reasonable $25 shipping cost. Hope the turn around is speedy!
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,180 Captain
    I had to send two rods into sage earlier this year. They broke about 2 weeks apart, and one took almost 3 months to get back (as a naked blank, not a production rod). It is what it is.
  • mastercastermastercaster Posts: 1,257 Officer
    It's a shame, cause they still are making some of the best blanks, but clearly they no longer put the customer above profits.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 2,696 Captain
    If I were to hazard a guess.... I'd say the sheer volume of "lifetime warranty" rods that Sage has sold over the years is catching up with them. I suspect at some point they'll begin either slowing down their turnaround time or actually put some limits on their warranties. I have at least one or two rods that have been broken and repaired/replaced three times or more....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,180 Captain
    lemaymiami wrote: »
    If I were to hazard a guess.... I'd say the sheer volume of "lifetime warranty" rods that Sage has sold over the years is catching up with them.


    That's exactly what it is.
  • LeeHLeeH Posts: 121 Officer
    This thread is really surprising to me, I had thought with the cost point of a Sage rod their warranty and customer service would be above and beyond my expectations.
    I've broken one flyrod in the 20+ years I've been flyfishing, a TFO BVK 4wt ( my fault I was attempting to land a larger fish before he was ready ) sent it to TFO along with a $25 check and had it back in less than a week. Maybe I wont "Upgrade" to a more exspensive brand after all.
  • ckfrankckfrank Posts: 59 Deckhand
    Over the past 10-12 years, I have returned broken fly rods to Sage, Loomis, Orvis and St Croix. In my experience, Orvis #1 with Loomis close #2 for fast no hassle service.
  • saltybumsaltybum Posts: 1,547 Captain
    Very interesting comments about Sage warranty seeing that they are also part of Redington in ownership.

    In the past couple years I have broken two Redington CPS rods ( much to my agony and likely due to clousers hitting the tip sections ) and had both replced in about three weeks with CPX rods. Very pleased with my CPX 6wt saltwater replacement over the CPS.

    Too bad that customer loyalty seems to be going south in so many businesses lately (greed) and ultimately their own demise because of such.
  • mastercastermastercaster Posts: 1,257 Officer
    lemaymiami wrote: »
    If I were to hazard a guess.... I'd say the sheer volume of "lifetime warranty" rods that Sage has sold over the years is catching up with them.

    I'm sure it is, but it's the companies responsibility to expand their capabilities and not make the customer (who has paid you a lot of money) suffer.

    Sage has good, and in some cases better competition now, they need to step up. This has been going on for years and is not a recent issue with them.
  • TarponutTarponut Posts: 4 Greenhorn
    My local Sage dealer doesn't carry any rods over 8 weight and a few years back I wanted to try a 12 wt Xi2. He called Sage and they agreed to send him one that I could try and return if I didn't like it. I ended up trying the Xi2 and the GLX Cross Current and settled on the CCGLX. My dealer called me a day later and said that Sage was going to charge him a $150.00 "restocking fee". He agreed to pay it but was not happy about it. He promised me that Sage never mentioned that to him before he got the rod. I ended up splitting the cost with him but I wasn't happy either. Not a month later my buddy broke his TCR and it took him nearly 3 months to get it replaced. I sold all of my Sage rods and went with Loomis exclusively - Loomis HAD a great warranty policy - but now that has changed. I have never heard a complaint about TFO so maybe that is where I'm going from now on. As stated above, the companies selling $800.00 + rods had better step up. I think most of us want good customer service these days but it's tough to find anywhere, anymore.
  • clampmanclampman Posts: 130 Officer
    That's exactly what it is.
    And it will certainly get worse, not better, considering the relative fragility of todays rods as compared to the old fiberglass rods and early generations of graphites.

    The next step will inevitably be a large increase in the cost of repair work and very limited duration waranties. Whereas in the old days few people had backup rods, today it is a necessity even for non- guiding recreational anglers.
  • Bill@NSBBill@NSB Posts: 207 Officer
    To me, Sage has always been slow, but always fair, to me, at least. As DOC said,"It is what it is".
    You know that it usually takes around 6 weeks for a repair or replacement, going into buying one. Although, 3 months seems excessive.

    Too be honest, I'm a little weary of hearing how great TFO is. They make a decent rod, not nearly the class of a high-end Sage or Loomis.
    And by that, I mean how fast they are. I own a BVK and it's by far their best stick, but it's not nearly as fast, or enjoyable to cast, as an Xi2 or NRX.
    Yes, TFO has a great warranty and business model. I don't look at Sage to grow that much and their warranty speed will probably continue to plague them.
    But given the choice, I'd take a Sage (certain Models) over a TFO any day. I do think Sages entry-level models suck.
  • YakFlyYakFly Posts: 12 Greenhorn
    I think we all want to fish and own the best brand and most expensive gear available. Is the performance that much better, will we catch more fish, will are rods break less if we spend $500 more? I'm my Hubble opinion I think not. I can't speak for the high end rods because I won't spend that kind of money, but I'm hear to tell ya if I have to make 2 extra false casts to make a 60-70ft shot because my rod is a bit slower over spending 400 to 500 bucks more for a rod, I pick the extra casts. All rods are going to break no matter how much you spend on them. I own 2 TFO rods, wade fish and fish from a kayak and have never once after a full day of casting thought to myself I really need to buy a faster high end rod. I spend my hard earned money on company's that have low cost fast warranty work, great customer service, and the most bang for my $. Will TFO always have great customer service and great warranty work after 20-30 yrs if they are still around? Prolly not, but for now they do and that's what matters to me.
  • flycasterflycaster Posts: 45 Deckhand
    Kudos to TFO. I've only had Sage rods over the years, all but one were custom rods. Recently broke an older rod that wasn't covered by a Sage warranty (custom rod, remember), so I decided I'd give a BVK 6wt a try. Had the BVK (great rod BTW) a week and then caught it in a car's closing window. Anyway, sent it off to TFO with $25. Had the rod back in a week, with the broken section replaced. Tell you what, with the great price point breaks on TFO's rods, their rods' excellent casting properties, and very timely warrantied return service, I'm looking forward to my next TFO rod.
  • flyfshrmn82flyfshrmn82 Posts: 139 Officer
    YakFly wrote: »
    I think we all want to fish and own the best brand and most expensive gear available. Is the performance that much better, will we catch more fish, will are rods break less if we spend $500 more? I'm my Hubble opinion I think not. I can't speak for the high end rods because I won't spend that kind of money, but I'm hear to tell ya if I have to make 2 extra false casts to make a 60-70ft shot because my rod is a bit slower over spending 400 to 500 bucks more for a rod, I pick the extra casts. All rods are going to break no matter how much you spend on them. I own 2 TFO rods, wade fish and fish from a kayak and have never once after a full day of casting thought to myself I really need to buy a faster high end rod. I spend my hard earned money on company's that have low cost fast warranty work, great customer service, and the most bang for my $. Will TFO always have great customer service and great warranty work after 20-30 yrs if they are still around? Prolly not, but for now they do and that's what matters to me.

    To each his own. Certain types/situations of fishing do'nt allow extra false casts. Sometimes you only get one cast w/o any false casts to throw 70'. Those shots usually happen with the fish of a lifetime at the other end while battling adverse conditions (it just seems to happen that way). I just spent hundreds/thousands of dollars on a guide to give me that chance. I'll pay a little extra money and take better care for my gear...
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,180 Captain
    flycaster wrote: »
    I've only had Sage rods over the years, all but one were custom rods. Recently broke an older rod that wasn't covered by a Sage warranty (custom rod, remember).

    Every rod/blank sage has ever produced is covered by a no fault warranty. That includes all custom work.
  • MistermtdMistermtd Posts: 73 Deckhand
    Just for grins, I sent the link to this thread to sage last week. As of this moment - still no response either to my email account or here.

    fyi
  • YakFlyYakFly Posts: 12 Greenhorn
    To each his own. Certain types/situations of fishing do'nt allow extra false casts. Sometimes you only get one cast w/o any false casts to throw 70'. Those shots usually happen with the fish of a lifetime at the other end while battling adverse conditions (it just seems to happen that way). I just spent hundreds/thousands of dollars on a guide to give me that chance. I'll pay a little extra money and take better care for my gear...


    I agree with you 100% Dirty! But I think experience, casting skill, and technique are far more important to make that cast than whether your holding a $500 setup or $2000 setup.
  • tarpon41tarpon41 Posts: 183 Deckhand
    Within the first year of TFO and Mr Kreh bolting from Sage to TFO, every flyfishing forum salt and fresh has regularly had the broken Loomis/Sage high end money grubbing bash vis a vis the eleemosynary TFO light speed repair/returns. How's it possible that they can do what Sage and Loomis cannot...what about St Croix, Scott, or Winston or Orvis how do they perform on return time. I've only broken one a Clouser strike on my 9wt TCR blank sent it in and blank tip section back in three weeks. I suspect that TFO is in the business to make a profit and therefore assume their margin on a 250-300 offshore rod is substantial. Typical retailer discount is 45-50 % off retail...if 50 then TFO sells the 250 to the retailer for 125...what's TFO's gross margin on the 125 rod...has to be sufficient to fund all their rod breakages that seem to populate the forums and is in substance a guaranty to replace for 25. At least TFO and Sage have one thing in common aside from fly rods that being retail price maintenance
  • mbowersmbowers Posts: 487 Officer
    From www.sageflyfish.com warranty section

    The lifetime, original owner warranty applies to rods with a serial # beginning with the letter "M" and higher, including all double letters (i.e. AA, AB, AC). Rods with serial #'s beginning with the single letters "A - L" (generally manufactured prior to 1995); have an original owner lifetime guarantee against any defect in materials or workmanship. Any of these series of rods that fail due to misuse, negligence or normal wear-and-tear will be repaired or replaced at a reasonable cost. The serial # may be found on the rod directly opposite the Sage logo.

    I had some trouble getting a "G" series RPL replaced even though I bought it in 1995 and it was sold to me by the flyshop as an unconditional warranty rod. Sage did eventually cover the repair. My biggest complaint with built "saltwater" rods from Sage and other high end manufacturers has been the poor choice of snake guides which quickly rust out in the salt. Since I end up rewrapping the rod with REC guides anyway after a year or two, I might as well just get the blank and build it myself!
  • bonefishdickbonefishdick Posts: 67 Deckhand
    Two things. I remember sending a rod to Sage and I also had the experience of getting a phone call a month and a half later saying that the rod was received by the repair shop from the shipping / receiving department and they wanted to know how I was going to pay. After giving them the credit card info I ,was informed it would be another 6 weeks. I stated that was Extremely Poor Customer Service .

    Their answer was with the volume of returns from all over the world that was the normal repair time frame. They did not give any indication at all they were concerned about the customer's opinion at all all.

    I do not buy Sage any more, sort of like watching TV and my "Vote with The Remote" decision. There are some shows and channels I don't watch anymore. MSNBC being number 1. I have another Sage rod that I thought I would send back but after reading the previous post I know they would say that it would fall under the normal wear and tear category and it would end up costing me. I'm in the process of remodeling my bathroom and when they delivered the dumpster, I deposited the rod in it, The sections fused together and I was unable to separate them and they spit when trying to get them apart.

    TFO repair and turn around is about the best in the industry and sets the standard, on two occasions I had both rods back in less than two weeks.

    Orvis customer service is excellent with regards to turn around time, they do charge a $35 fee to cover "Shipping and Handling" at the Orvis store, not sure what the cost would be if I mailed it back to them directly. I would not pay that until the rod came back, they usually charge before the rod is sent for repairs. When the rod came back i would have paid but because they could not get the charge to come up in their register and I had to wait a long time, the manager gave me the rod back without the charge. Another kudo for them.
    "The Tug Is The Drug"
  • Ol'DirtyCasterOl'DirtyCaster Posts: 2,180 Captain
    This whole thread is pretty disturbing, start to finish. Where does this sense of entitlement come from?
  • hatiduahatidua Posts: 17 Greenhorn
    This whole thread is pretty disturbing, start to finish. Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

    I think that sense of entitlement is a result of some rod company, at some point in history, thinking they'd have a competitive marketing edge over their competitors by offering a lifetime warranty. As a result, an entire generation of anglers have now become accustomed to fly rods having this magical warranty that in many cases includes car door and ceiling fan breakage.

    Nobody forced these companies to adopt this policy, but now that they have, woe be it to any manufacturer who is slow (Sage) or continually raises the cost of that warranty (Loomis).

    I suspect the fly rod industry wishes it'd never gone down the "lifetime warranty" road. However, just like the airline industry with their frequent-flier programs, the barn door was opened and shutting it isn't nearly as easy.
  • clampmanclampman Posts: 130 Officer
    Well, despite the snail-paced turnaround time with Sage, the fact remains that their waranty, from my limited experience, is rodk solid. They replaced a 25+ year old 12 wt tip, smashed by an anchor locker lid for me without question.

    I tried out 5 or 6 different 7 wts a couple years ago and then tried a TCX. For me, it was such a sharp jump above every other rod I'd ever cast that I could not justify NOT buying it. I'd have been calling myself an idiot every time I cast any of those other rods if I'd bought one. I've since bought an 8 wt in that model. It's like they customized that particular taper just for me.

    So it's a just a question of having backup rods during the wait, in the event of a mishap.
    The sections fused together and I was unable to separate them and they spit when trying to get them apart.
    ****, I've jammed my sections together so tight I couldn't get them apart either without frozen blackeyed peas on the male section, hot tap water on the female section, fish gloves on and pulling like hell behind my knees. Even with all that, I was worried there for a bit. But I'm sure Sage would have replaced yours for the standard fee.

    Cheers,
    Jim
  • Carl BlackledgeCarl Blackledge Posts: 674 Officer
    YakFly wrote: »
    I agree with you 100% Dirty! But I think experience, casting skill, and technique are far more important to make that cast than whether your holding a $500 setup or $2000 setup.

    I think you hit the nail on the head.....learn to cast is the right answer

    Carl Blackledge
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