Gotta love those unions

13

Replies

  • Bruce LBBruce LB Posts: 3,603 Officer
    I don't think they were blaming the employees or the unions, what they said is the company cannot financially endure a strike and stoppage right now and the union said too bad.
  • badbullgatorbadbullgator Posts: 1,568 Officer
    erock wrote: »
    Via Twitter...

    The Associated Press ‏@AP
    BREAKING: Hostess, the maker of Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder Bread, is going out of business


    Worked out well for the union huh? As I said above they were not the only problem but they were a big part. They pushed for pensions and wage increases when the rest of the industry move away from pensions and higher wages. I will say it over and over again, some jobs are not worth paying someone $20/hr for. If your skill set is limited to turning a wrench, driving a truck or forklift your wages are not going to be the same as an engineer, scientist, attorney, or physician. Anybody can drive a truck and your wage is directly related to how many people can walk in a do your job tomorrow. Everybody wants to make more but the simple fact is your job is worth whatever wage people will work for and that wage has to leave room for the company to make money. We have become a society that feels if we work for someone they owe us far more than a wage.
    In this case The union led their members right to the unemployment line. Why be flexible and keep a job with a pay check when you can ***** about what you have and then have nothing. I get the idea in this case that the union decided if they won't cave to our domains we will put the, out of business.
    End result is I am on my way to Publix to stock up on Ho-ho's
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"

    -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
  • bigironbigiron Posts: 542 Officer
    Bruce LB wrote: »
    I don't think they were blaming the employees or the unions, what they said is the company cannot financially endure a strike and stoppage right now and the union said too bad.

    Correct. I know the Union did have them backed into a corner...what with a twinkie stuffer making $20/hr PLUS pension....yea, thats out of control..BUT this didn't happen over night and now it seems that the Union negotiations have them over a barrel. If management was on top of their game, they would have busted the Union back before they turned to the equity investors when they realized they needed cash to operate.....
  • badbullgatorbadbullgator Posts: 1,568 Officer
    bigiron wrote: »
    Why do companies always blame everything BUT their management style. They blame Obama, they blame the economy, they blame regulators, they blame EMPLOYEES. Not once do they blame themselves. Management is there to manage. I believe I read one post where an owner took a pay CUT 5 years in a row. That is the sign of a strong manager...one who will adjust to compete in changing times instead of blaming the very entity they are charged with running. I manage my business like the weather, if it rains, I find a dry place. If it is cold, I find a warm place. If it is hot I find a cool place. I don't sit around blaming the weather for getting me wet, for making me cold, or for making me hot. I adjust to the weather, not blame it. Funny thing about Hostess is that they are loaded with subordinated debt so they apper to have been struggling for some time. The investors have stood buy and did nothing, and now at zero hour, they blame the unions and employees. Not once has any high level Executive said, "We screwed up and our strategy isn't working".

    Actually if you do some investigating rather than just reading a thread on FS you would find that they did in fact say their strategy was not working. They are not blaming the union alone, but the unions decision to strike when the company is on the verge of bankruptcy was the straw that broke the camels back. Even more to the point, the union intentionally put the final nail in the coffin.
    Regardless 15,000 new unemployed to add to the list. Actually I believe the total is closer to 19,000 when you include non-union workers
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"

    -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
  • bigironbigiron Posts: 542 Officer
    End result is I am on my way to Publix to stock up on Ho-ho's

    On a positive note, don't twinkies have a shelf life of 25 years?? Thats better than Vienna sausage and Spam.
  • badbullgatorbadbullgator Posts: 1,568 Officer
    bigiron wrote: »
    Correct. I know the Union did have them backed into a corner...what with a twinkie stuffer making $20/hr PLUS pension....yea, thats out of control..BUT this didn't happen over night and now it seems that the Union negotiations have them over a barrel. If management was on top of their game, they would have busted the Union back before they turned to the equity investors when they realized they needed cash to operate.....

    Busting unions it not as easy as you make it seem. Organized crime at its worst.
    Keep in mind it is not only wages and pensions but a huge list or union requirements (number of required workers, limited hours, overtime, healthcare above and beyond what others get).
    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"

    -- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
  • bigironbigiron Posts: 542 Officer
    Busting unions it not as easy as you make it seem. Organized crime at its worst.
    Keep in mind it is not only wages and pensions but a huge list or union requirements (number of required workers, limited hours, overtime, healthcare above and beyond what others get).

    You are absolutely correct. I have personally known a business owner that HAD to go bankrupt to bust his union shop...long story. But it seems that Hostess should have seen this coming...and even though they knew they couldnt bust the union easily, they did know the pensions were straining their bottom line. They knew they couldn't pay $20/hr to a twinkie stuffer and survive, but it seems that the deciding factor in their survival was shedding the pensions and the Union.
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    Mister-Jr wrote: »
    If you are interested, here is the entire story about the demise of Hostess.

    http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

    That's a great article.

    Here was the take-home message, copied directly from the article:
    " The Teamsters remain stuck in a time warp, unwilling to sufficiently adapt in a competitive marketplace"
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • nuclearfishnnuclearfishn Posts: 8,348 Admiral
    I think this may be the new business trend. "Go on strike......loose your job" Long over due.
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    I think this may be the new business trend. "Go on strike......loose your job" Long over due.

    :Agree
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • grady30wagrady30wa Posts: 10,161 Officer
    End result is I am on my way to Publix to stock up on Ho-ho's

    Buy Twinkies in bulk.

    I guarantee those things will be on ebay in 3 months selling for $5/each
    Schadenfreude. November 8, 2016
  • bigironbigiron Posts: 542 Officer
    Actually if you do some investigating rather than just reading a thread on FS you would find that they did in fact say their strategy was not working. They are not blaming the union alone, but the unions decision to strike when the company is on the verge of bankruptcy was the straw that broke the camels back. Even more to the point, the union intentionally put the final nail in the coffin.
    Regardless 15,000 new unemployed to add to the list. Actually I believe the total is closer to 19,000 when you include non-union workers
    I am pretty sure I read the article without relying on the FS.forum for information. It appears by your comment that we have different interpretations. But thanks for your insight.
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 7,773 Admiral
    23895.gif
  • Triple Threat 33TTriple Threat 33T Posts: 18,638 Admin
    So let me see if I understand this correctly, last week 18,000 (eighteen thousand) people had jobs making substantially above average wages, health benefits, vacation pay, holiday pay, sick time and a pension plan and now this week, thanks to their union, they're unemployed, lost all of their benefits, holiday pay and will be collecting unemployment (less that 25% of what they were making not even including benefits)? A week before Thanksgiving and a month before Christmas?

    You gotta love those Unions. :beer

    Happy Holidays folks.
    "Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us in our time of need. Amen."
  • JesseJamesJesseJames Posts: 2,408 Officer
    So let me see if I understand this correctly, last week 18,000 (eighteen thousand) people had jobs making substantially above average wages, health benefits, vacation pay, holiday pay, sick time and a pension plan and now this week, thanks to their union, they're unemployed, lost all of their benefits, holiday pay and will be collecting unemployment (less that 25% of what they were making not even including benefits)? A week before Thanksgiving and a month before Christmas?

    You gotta love those Unions. :beer

    Happy Holidays folks.

    This.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    copoutfishing.com
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 5,908 Admiral
    I always leaned Confederate myself.
  • gandrfabgandrfab Posts: 19,975 AG
    So let me see if I understand this correctly, last week 18,000 (eighteen thousand) people had jobs making substantially above average wages, health benefits, vacation pay, holiday pay, sick time and a pension plan and now this week, thanks to their union, they're unemployed, lost all of their benefits, holiday pay and will be collecting unemployment (less that 25% of what they were making not even including benefits)? A week before Thanksgiving and a month before Christmas?

    You gotta love those Unions. :beer

    Happy Holidays folks.
    If you ask for to much you just may lose it all.
    :BUNNY gestapo

  • nuclearfishnnuclearfishn Posts: 8,348 Admiral
    gandrfab wrote: »
    If you ask for to much you just may lose it all.

    Let this be a lesson.
  • King_MeKing_Me Posts: 5,129 Admiral
    Fish Haid wrote: »

    :rotflmao
  • GT FishGT Fish Posts: 9,448 Officer
    Polar wrote: »
    Welp, guess spins going on the diet after all

    lolz
    mousey.gif
    61903c544aca27b57fb2aa29e6bc4a3b.gif
    gnat.gifWzz6I.gif
  • nuclearfishnnuclearfishn Posts: 8,348 Admiral
    Ever wonder where those stray hairs came from inside the twinkies?
    [video]http://www.usatoday.com/videos/money/business/2012/11/16/1708899/[/video]
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    tell me again why Unions are good for us
    169304.GIF
  • PolarPolar Lake WorthPosts: 22,261 AG
    I had an onion bagel today
  • Triple Threat 33TTriple Threat 33T Posts: 18,638 Admin
    coldair wrote: »
    tell me again why Unions are good for us

    Well, in this particular case, aside from costing 18,000 people their jobs right before the Holidays, they've done their part to stop the systematic cultivation of diabetes in this country. God Bless the Unions.
    "Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as they protect us. Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform for us in our time of need. Amen."
  • SLW210SLW210 Posts: 2,226 Officer
    DOCKSIDE wrote: »
    So, with all this said. I'm curious. How many of you educated, work harder than anyone else, I pay my way own way, my employees are lucky to work for me and lucky to have a job in today's world, over taxed forum members have "actually been a Union Member, one who went through a real Apprenticeship program,worked days and schooled nights with a minimum B average to progress to the next level, agreed to volunteer 1 weekend per month to support a local charity of your choice, and actually became a Journeyman ? Just curious... I hear a lot of typical media BS here and not much else... not entering into an argument, unless you want to, ...

    Not many of those "Unions" around. Millwrights, just seems at times, to just hand out union cards, maybe they still do training, but I have seen little evidence of proper training since I was a Millwright and started engineering and over seeing instalations. Even when I was still millwrighting, I had a 30 years in the union member that was assigned to me as a helper journeyman, I don't think the guy had even done much work as millwright. Did seem to vary from location to location.

    I know the IBEW stills does a great job on the training, I know several and have worked with many over the years. I know an elevator mechanic that went through all the training also (don't know what union), but really, how many others still have a viable training program.

    Besides, most of these these unions, like at Hostess, have no training programs that I know of. You sign on and pay dues.

    I'll back a good Union shop that properly trains and has real concerns for the employees.

    I've worked Union and have worked as a manager and dealt with union issues.

    Worked one place, that had to spend $$$$$ on legal fees etc. to fire someone caught, on site, smoking weed (in a no smoking area to boot). That's the real COST OF A UNION WORKFORCE these days, not being able to FIRE workers that need to be fired. That's money that the company could spend toward pay raises and healthcare.

    Don't even get me started on the UAW and there totally stupid union rules.

    Don't assume you know the people posting on this board.

    That's why you mostly hear about the pay your dues and your in the union unions.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 960 Officer
    yep, gotta love those unions alright.

    Nothing wrong with sticking to a business model that produces crap, with a shelf life jokingly measured in decades.
    Products rumored to be the last thing standing after a Nuclear holocaust, right beside the Roaches and Fire Ants.

    A product development team garnered from the last Covered Wagon Company.

    The company filed for Bankruptcy a couple of times, them gets hooked up with some Parasite Hedge Funds.

    Hostess is akin to the Slide Rule, or perhaps the Abacus. When was the last time anyone here purchased anything from Hostess?

    SlideRule.jpg
  • CaptTaterCaptTater Posts: 20,096 Officer
    Indigo wrote: »
    yep, gotta love those unions alright.

    Nothing wrong with sticking to a business model that produces crap, with a shelf life jokingly measured in decades.
    Products rumored to be the last thing standing after a Nuclear holocaust, right beside the Roaches and Fire Ants.

    A product development team garnered from the last Covered Wagon Company.

    The company filed for Bankruptcy a couple of times, them gets hooked up with some Parasite Hedge Funds.

    Hostess is akin to the Slide Rule, or perhaps the Abacus. When was the last time anyone here purchased anything from Hostess?
    ]
    So, knowing all that, if you worked there and the boss man says we all take an 8% pay cut or we go out of business and none of us have jobs what do you do?
    I did not read the story but if you take tax payers money maybe you should be held to some standards.-Cyclist
    when we say the same thing about welfare recipients, you cry like a wounded buffalo Sopchoppy
    It's their money, they spend it how they like. Truth and honesty have nothing to do with it. - Mr Jr
    "“A radical is one who advocates sweeping changes in the existing laws and methods of government.” "
  • ontheedge5658ontheedge5658 Posts: 2,658 Officer
    0x0=0
  • nuclearfishnnuclearfishn Posts: 8,348 Admiral
    CaptTater wrote: »
    So, knowing all that, if you worked there and the boss man says we all take an 8% pay cut or we go out of business and none of us have jobs what do you do?
    If I was asked to take a pay cut........which may happen early next year..........i probably would. I can always go look for another job, but I'de be dam foolish to walk away from a paying job in this economy.
    The basic principle of a union is not a bad thing, but money seems to corrupt everything sooner or later. Unions make competing in a global economy almost impossible.
  • Oldfox1939Oldfox1939 Posts: 521 Officer
    Heard on the news, that a bread truck and a twinkies truck covered the same routes. Bread truck could not haul twinkies and a twinkies truck could not carry bread.

    So two trucks, two drivers to deliver what one truck and one driver could deliver....not like they would be overloaded by weight.

    All due to union rules........is this stupid or what ?

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