Florida must stop paying $1 billion a year to 'educate' children in fringe religious nonsense

13

Replies

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    You can't get your thoughts together in one post? Had to quote me twice?

    Your post is exactly why we need a standard for all schools to meet, public or private. 

    Here is one private school that is a fraud

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/education/fl-charter-private-school-money-20171213-story.html

    another one with problems

    https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/arlington-country-day-shuts-down-after-failing-to-provide-documentation-on-teacher-students/691099261

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 1,441 Officer
    Unlike public schools: at private schools failing teachers and admin can be fired!  Even schools are shut down!

    score one for the free market!!

    *i 100% think we should do like the Norwegian countries when it comes to education: each child gets X-amount of $, and the parents send them to a school of their choosing... IF the school wants $, they compete with other schools.  Competition will make things better.  EZPZ. 
  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 7,613 Admiral
    Cad, face the facts. Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
    II Chronicles 7:14

    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 1,441 Officer
    ** I'd like to add that I think we have a huge parenting issue more than a teaching issue.  ~50% of kids are born out of wedlock. Many kids do not appear to have respect for authority. There's many many videos online showing interactions of juveniles in public schools acting out to adults.  
    No wonder why this country is going down the tubes...

    yes es I sound old, but I'm 36 and I've seen a decline since I've been in school. 

    Many many any reasons for the decline... Throwing more $ at public or private schools will not solve our societies issues.  Believing any benevolent govt is asinine also. 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    Spineyman said:
    Cad, face the facts. Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    The same could be said for religious private schools if you wish to go down that road,


    Mini Mart Magnate

  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,014 Captain
    cadman said:
    Spineyman said:
    Cad, face the facts. Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    The same could be said for religious private schools if you wish to go down that road,


    They don't? You mean UF offered my son an academic scholarship when he couldn't do math, spell correctly, or use proper grammar? I knew he should have went to FSU. 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    pottydoc said:
    cadman said:
    Spineyman said:
    Cad, face the facts. Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    The same could be said for religious private schools if you wish to go down that road,


    They don't? You mean UF offered my son an academic scholarship when he couldn't do math, spell correctly, or use proper grammar? I knew he should have went to FSU. 
    I am talking indoctrination camps. 

    There are a lot of students at UF and FSU that graduated public schools, so your son is in good company. 

    The argument public schools don't teach is idiotic in its foundation, therefore I ignored that part of his statement unless you think our universities are full of students who can't read, write or do math. 

    There are good public schools and good private schools, there are also bad public schools and bad private schools. the only to ensure your kid goes to a good public or private school is to be sure they meet a required academic standard. 



    Mini Mart Magnate

  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 3,441 Captain
    cadman said:
    pottydoc said:
    cadman said:
    Spineyman said:
    Cad, face the facts. Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    The same could be said for religious private schools if you wish to go down that road,


    They don't? You mean UF offered my son an academic scholarship when he couldn't do math, spell correctly, or use proper grammar? I knew he should have went to FSU. 
    I am talking indoctrination camps. 

    There are a lot of students at UF and FSU that graduated public schools, so your son is in good company. 

    The argument public schools don't teach is idiotic in its foundation, therefore I ignored that part of his statement unless you think our universities are full of students who can't read, write or do math. 

    There are good public schools and good private schools, there are also bad public schools and bad private schools. the only to ensure your kid goes to a good public or private school is to be sure they meet a required academic standard. 



    There are good public schools in certain areas  but many public schools, because of demographics, must teach to the lowest levels so most students can pass and move on to the next grade.
    Private schools aren't held to that standard.
    I am not being racist but many public schools are in areas where many of the kids are not proficient in English or  are from areas where there is no family structure and street survival of the fittest is more important than education.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,219 Admiral
    edited June 12 #70
    The US Department of Education was founded in 1978 and went into operation in fiscal year 1979. 
     Public education started it’s  decline soon after. 
     The federal government should have no business in education. 
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,014 Captain
    Cad, for the most part we agree. But, I think there are far fewer "indoctrination camps" out there than the article try to get folks to believe there is. Coming from the Sentinel makes it even less believeable. I read the article again today in the paper. The writer says that they've had a team of reporters investigating these schools. And I'll bet most of their conclusions were foregone before they ever "investigated" anything. They dang sure offered zero proof to any of their accusations. As I posted before, if the article had been about some liberal cause, and offered nothing but a bunch of accusations like this one, the OP,and the article would have been crucified. There's no doubt there are some weird schools out there, and they're not all Christian schools either. But for the most part, private schools do a good job educating their kids. Mr Maxwells article is a bunch of unproven bs for the most part. 
  • Gary SGary S Posts: 673 Officer
    pottydoc said:
    Gary S said:
    I've been involved in private education and I have also been involved in home schooling 

    What is your experience with public school? 
    Is the 99% from some facts or just off the top of your head?
    I'm guessing you are asking me.      


    Sorry doc This is what I was referring to.

                                 Spineyman  Posts: 7,607 Admiral

    In the first place 99% of the private schools have a far better education than any public school.


    On a side note, I worked A/C maintenance for 38 years in Dade schools. I have seen the best and the worst. There are so called teachers that have no business teaching anything anywhere. There are also teachers out there that deserve twice what they are payed. I never went to private school so I can't comment on them, but I have seen a lot of public schools.
     Charter schools are killing public schools, Charter funding comes out of publics monies. They take the cream of the crop and leave all the problems.
     When they started up they were supposed to provide facilities for the charter schools, now they are getting money to maintain them. 
  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 1,441 Officer
    My personal experience with private Christian schools:  I went to a Lutheran school for ~6 years up until high school.  I had 6 fellow classmates attend the same high school after the Christian school. 
    All of us were placed in advanced/honor classes.  I think we all were in the national honor society too. (Maybe 5 of us?)
    I still keep in contact with most of the kids, thru Facebook. 2 are doctors, 1 a lawyer, and the others appear to have steady careers and family lives. 

    Its hard to say that the private Christian school was the determining factor in molding us to become productive members of society...  I honestly think the success of a student largely falls on the parents and the home life...  The majority of my classmates appeared to come from stable-middle class homes...

    i still believe that school choice is great thing and can bring competition and strive for better educators..  BUT, a students success or failure begins at home. 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    The US Department of Education was founded in 1978 and went into operation in fiscal year 1979. 
     Public education started it’s  decline soon after. 
     The federal government should have no business in education. 
    They only thing the fed should do is ensure every state teaches a basic curriculum, The DOE has gone far beyond that.

    But we aren't discussing federal intervention here, just state money.

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,437 Admiral
    Florida is using nearly $1 billion of your tax dollars to teach kids in voucher schools fake science and distorted history — all because uneducated charlatans have figured out how to intimidate state legislators.

    unfortunately, this is code for non-politically corrected science that hasn't been altered by social pressure.

    example, not endorsing the current claim to 1,209,230,343 different human gender types   :rolleyes



    as to the $1 billion, how many of those vouchers are the McKay scholarships (if any)?  (Serious question)


  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,219 Admiral
    cadman said:
    The US Department of Education was founded in 1978 and went into operation in fiscal year 1979. 
     Public education started it’s  decline soon after. 
     The federal government should have no business in education. 
    They only thing the fed should do is ensure every state teaches a basic curriculum, The DOE has gone far beyond that.

    But we aren't discussing federal intervention here, just state money.
    Every state always taught a basic curriculum. 
    The feds went way beyond that. Thus the topic at hand. Why do you think people are scrambling to get their kids out of these failing gubermint skols??
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,872 Admiral
    edited June 12 #77
    All public schools teach only evolution, kids learn jack****.
    Spineyman said:
    Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    Did you learn this in public or private school?  Just curious...Mike
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 7,091 Admiral

     non-politically corrected science that hasn't been altered by social pressure.







    science corrects itself through testing, experimentation and logical reasoning 

    social pressure is what alters people acceptance of science 


    Mother Nature does not care about your opinions or how they were derived from the social pressures you put yourself under.  

    Mother Nature's laws are the laws of science. Not religious laws. 

    When Momma ain't happy then nobody's happy.  No matter how much you pray.




    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,437 Admiral
    Gardawg said:

     non-politically corrected science that hasn't been altered by social pressure.







    science corrects itself through testing, experimentation and logical reasoning 

    social pressure is what alters people acceptance of science 


    Mother Nature does not care about your opinions or how they were derived from the social pressures you put yourself under.  

    Mother Nature's laws are the laws of science. Not religious laws. 

    When Momma ain't happy then nobody's happy.  No matter how much you pray.




    social pressure is changing science.

    social pressure has told science there is more than 2 genders, for example.

    to disagree means one is an uneducated christian who believes in fake science and distorted history
    :rolleyes
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 192 Deckhand
    edited June 12 #80
    All public schools teach only evolution, kids learn jack****.
    Spineyman said:
    Public school is nothing more than indoctrination camps. they don't teach reading writing and arithmetic. They brain wash and dumb down!
    Did you learn this in public or private school?  Just curious...Mike
    Private, Public Fundamental elementary, Public middle school, Public IB program Highschool, Public Highschool.

    Pretty well mixed.
    The fundamental, and IB magnet programs were place deeeep in the hood, not sure why. I got to ride a bike to elementary school,  outran a naked crackhead on the way to 3rd grade, was bussed an hr to highschool.
    Magnet programs make magnet parents get involved, other parents, not so much.
    Taught, and Learned dont mean the same thing, when i was in school, kids got held back for not showing up, or not learning.  
    Public shools have spent plenty of time learning to cheat on tests rather than explain to parents that Johnny missed too many days to pass.

    Good times.
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    cadman said:
    The US Department of Education was founded in 1978 and went into operation in fiscal year 1979. 
     Public education started it’s  decline soon after. 
     The federal government should have no business in education. 
    They only thing the fed should do is ensure every state teaches a basic curriculum, The DOE has gone far beyond that.

    But we aren't discussing federal intervention here, just state money.
    Every state always taught a basic curriculum. 
    The feds went way beyond that. Thus the topic at hand. Why do you think people are scrambling to get their kids out of these failing gubermint skols??
    Not all states. The Department of Education was originally started in 1867 to collect data and statistics on local schools. It functioned as the Office of Education until LBJ expanded their role and eventually becoming a cabinet level department. 

    But you are correct, starting with LBJ, the Department went way beyond the duties they were originally intended for. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 7,613 Admiral
    Gardawg said:

     non-politically corrected science that hasn't been altered by social pressure.









    Mother Nature's laws are the laws of science. Not religious laws. 






    Keep dreaming!
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
    II Chronicles 7:14

    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,872 Admiral
    edited June 14 #83
    Who is dreaming?

    The one who thinks the laws of nature are dictated by bronze age ethics, or the one who recognizes science's repeatable and verifiable proof to the contrary?

    HINT: It's not Gardawg.


  • dave44dave44 Posts: 6,776 Admiral
    I Love science. But science is being twisted by agenda, Turning it into a new religion. 
       When a bunch of people start reciting studies meant to prove some awkward point they want to make, before the data is finished being collected, you know something else is driving the “ science”.
      It’s especially humorous to listen to people with large egos pointing at unfinished theories as science fact.
  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 7,613 Admiral
    Who is dreaming?

    The one who thinks the laws of nature are dictated by bronze age ethics, or the one who recognizes science's repeatable and verifiable proof to the contrary?

    HINT: It's not Gardawg.


    Hint it is not provable or repeatable or verifiable. But nice try. They change dating methods like you change underwear. By the way it also uses assumptions!
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
    II Chronicles 7:14

    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • dave44dave44 Posts: 6,776 Admiral
    Spineyman said:
    Who is dreaming?

    The one who thinks the laws of nature are dictated by bronze age ethics, or the one who recognizes science's repeatable and verifiable proof to the contrary?

    HINT: It's not Gardawg.


    Hint it is not provable or repeatable or verifiable. But nice try. They change dating methods like you change underwear. By the way it also uses assumptions!
    Whoa there! It’s a wild assumption that he changes underwear at all! 
       I personally think he’ll change it at least twice a year.
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,014 Captain
    Ok, ok. Let's leave Mikes under ware out of this. No one really wants to know how often, or if, he changes it. 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,872 Admiral
    edited June 15 #88
    Dearest dynamic duo,

    It is a scientifically provable, repeatable, and verifiable fact there are more than two sexes.  

    I know carbon dating gets you all excited, Spiney, and we can go into that if you wish, but let's not get too far afield from the topic at hand and let's stay focused, shall we?

    Speaking of focused, and on, of all things, my underwear (?).... Did they even have underwear when your authoritatively incorrect view of sex was crystallized?

    I'm not sure they did, but you might be interested to hear that things have come a long way since.  Wild things like the atom and chromosomes have been discovered and described (I hear Dave likes quarks, but I'm NOT judging).  Things like the wheel, books, and even cars and trains and automobiles have been invented. 

    You see, things change, so please try to keep up.  Because the truth is God (or Allah...or Brahma...or the Cookie Monster (blessed be the bearer of cookies!)...or just dumb luck) made man and woman and all sorts of interesting combinations that make you both uncomfortable and wrong.  That, and I'm getting a bit tired of correcting you.

    Thanks for your consideration...Mike  :)
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 3,441 Captain
    There is a Holy Spirit that guides us whether you believe or not. When I was younger, I went through a agnostic phase but life experiences made me realize that I was wrong. Perhaps the Bible may be somewhat outdated but it was written with the best intent during the times. Still, the basic principles in the Bible still hold true today. It is how you choose to use it to your advantage. I see nothing wrong with teaching the Bible as well as Darwinism and as kids grow older, they can choose on their own as to believe (which parts) of it or not. As least they will have gained exposure to both sides of the equation and like most realize that somewhere in the middle is the right way. 
    PS, I am not a fan of "organized" religion. 

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 7,613 Admiral
    It is a scientifically provable, repeatable, and verifiable fact there are more than two sexes.  

    I know carbon dating gets you all excited, and we can go into that if you wish, but let's not get too far afield from the topic at hand and let's stay focused, shall we?

    Speaking of focused, and of on all things as my underwear.... Did they even have underwear when your authoritatively incorrect view of sex was crystallized?

    I'm not sure they did, but you might be interested to hear that things have come a long way since.  Wild things like the atom and chromosomes have been discovered and described (I hear Dave likes quarks, but I'm NOT judging).  Things like the wheel, books, and even cars and trains and automobiles have been invented. 

    You see, things change, so please try to keep up.  Because the truth is God (or Allah...or Bhrama...or the Cookie Monster (blessed be the bearer of cookies)...or just dumb luck) made man and woman and all sorts of interesting combinations that make you both uncomfortable and wrong.  That, and I'm getting a bit tired of correcting you.

    Thanks for your consideration...Mike

    Good stop trying to correct me with false claims.God made them male and female. Period end of discussion with me. Take it leave it or do what you would like with it. Have a blast!
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
    II Chronicles 7:14

    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,872 Admiral
    edited June 15 #91
    God made them transvestites too, and Jesus still loves them.  You should too.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file