Florida must stop paying $1 billion a year to 'educate' children in fringe religious nonsense

TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,873 Admiral
edited June 9 in Off Topic #1
Florida is using nearly $1 billion of your tax dollars to teach kids in voucher schools fake science and distorted history — all because uneducated charlatans have figured out how to intimidate state legislators.

Some of these schools — 80 percent describe themselves as “Christian” — use textbooks that claim people lived with dinosaurs. Heck, Noah had a couple in the ark. Some say God saved North America from Catholics and gave them South America instead. Others teach that slaves who “knew Christ” had “more freedom” than nonbelievers who weren’t captive. Babble. Just sheer babble.

The only reason these fringe “Christian schools” are getting away with sucking up millions in education funding is that Florida legislators are afraid of offending them. Elected types are so terrified of the instant howling about “Christians” being “persecuted” that they never seriously considered demanding the course of study in voucher schools meet the same standards taught in public schools. They’re just happy to buy votes with millions in cash. Your tax dollars.

Folks, these are neither real schools nor, scholars will argue, are they Christian. They’re just little money-making engines for benighted fraudsters whose only other chance at a paying job is the Sears hardware department.

Read the rest here:  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/lake/os-lauren-ritchie-uneducated-charlatans-get-millions-from-state-20180607-story.html

So, what do you think of Florida taxpayers subsidizing this type of education?  Do you think it's simply the parents rightfully expressing their rights, or do you take issue with Florida spending $1b to subsidize schools including those that teach these things?

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Replies

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,381 Captain
    I would like to better understand but...


    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • fishinbugfishinbug Posts: 287 Deckhand
    This is the rest of the article, @BallaCoiPersici .


    Not all voucher schools act like science is just a different religion — some are excellent schools with deep community roots. But the Orlando Sentinel’s series “Schools Without Rules” revealed that other voucher schools hire high school dropouts and felons as teachers, and even one fellow criminally charged with inappropriately touching a student popped up in three different voucher schools.

    Stop it right now. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that vouchers aren’t a violation of the First Amendment because they’re given to parents who then make the decision on where to educate their children. That doesn’t mean these schools should get away with teaching gibberish. They should meet the same curriculum requirements as every public school.

    Tim Dees, director of Downey Christian School in east Orange County, where 90 percent of his 275 students rely on state scholarships to pay tuition, defended his school: “We believe our way is correct. We focus on creationism because that’s what we believe.”

    No problem. Do fundamentalists want their kids to learn a bunch of hillbilly science? Handle venomous snakes? Learn that God looks down on Catholics, that America would still have slavery except “some power-hungry individuals stirred up the people”? Knock yourself out. Just don’t expect anyone else to pay for it, and stop calling it “education.” It’s not. It’s more like a 12-year sentence to some anamorphic Sunday school class from hell with no time off for good behavior.

    At the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, scholars have studied this phenomenon of the rise of poorly-educated Christian leaders in the South and how they came to wield such outsize political power compared to the number of their followers.

    “The overwhelming majority of Christians in the world and the United States don’t believe the stuff being foisted on people in Florida,” Richard Parker, a lecturer at the Kennedy Center, said during an interview this week. “Who gave them the inner road to Jesus versus others professing Christian faith?

    “This is all about political power, not religion.”

    Indeed, it is. And money drives political influence.

    Mainstream Christians, Jews and Muslims will have a hard time cutting off this waterfall of cash, and not in the least because they don’t even want to talk about it, let alone create a political dust-up and risk being condemned as tool of Satan. So “intellectually lazy,” mostly evangelical, Bible “experts” continue to ignite irrelevant firestorms while reasonable Christians remain silent, said Parker, an Episcopalian Christian.

    “It’s an embarrassment. It’s like trying to argue with your pre-adolescent. Think of evangelicals as teenage Christians — there’s a lot of enthusiasm but not a lot of wisdom,” he said.

    Christy Flanagan-Feddon of the University of Central Florida’s Department of Philosophy said most religions recognize that science and religion shouldn’t clash.

    “There’s no reason to see them in conflict — they’re different inquiries,” she said.

    So, Florida keeps providing money for schools that require third-grade students to face the very challenging task of differentiating between a pie and a cake, while public school third-graders must take a rigorous literacy skill test that requires them to read two passages and answer some questions in full sentences to progress to fourth grade.

    Florida has plenty of money to subsidize religious education. But not enough to keep students safe. Not enough to treat substance abuse in prisons. Not enough to repair crumbling roads, help homeless veterans or offer affordable housing for theme-park workers.

    A full percentage point of a record-breaking $88.7 billion state budget has to go to substandard voucher schools so Florida can look like the ignorant idiot nationwide. God bless us. We’re not even smart enough to save us from ourselves.

    Lritchie@orlandosentinel.com.


  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,873 Admiral
    edited June 9 #4
    Looks like Fishinbug beat me to the punch.  Thanks.  :)
  • fishinbugfishinbug Posts: 287 Deckhand
    You're welcome.  Balla assisted me a while back and I wanted him to get the rest of the story. 


  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,381 Captain
    edited June 9 #6
    Thanks ;)

    Vaucher schools are the private ones ?
    Just in case $1b is the cost for that religious “theories” only or the total amount of the State subsidy to all private schools ?
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,873 Admiral
    edited June 9 #7
    It's the total.  Yes, they are all private.

    And you are right to question/point out that all of the $1b does not go to these types of schools -- the headline is a bit sensational and misleading.

    Set aside the amount for a moment, do you think that the state should subsidize this type of "education"?
  • fishinbugfishinbug Posts: 287 Deckhand
    I do not support Charter Schools.  Diverting tax dollars away from public schools to offer "choices" is foolish.  Fund our public schools.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,381 Captain
    It's the total.  Yes, they are all private.

    And you are right to question/point out that all of the $1b does not go to these types of schools -- the headline is a bit sensational and misleading.

    Set aside the amount for a moment, do you think that the state should subsidize this type of "education"?

    Yes, it’s my point. Probably too much sansationalism.

    I think that the states (the countries) must not finance religions, in any way, not only religions education at school.

    And meantime the states (the countries) shouldn’t deny that schools can have religious education but also enforce a strong control and prosecute any radicalism.
    But the problem is always the same: to protect some radicalisms (out of any common sense) they practically encouraged the growth of other radicalisms (out of any common sense too).
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 3,586 Captain
    The article mentions "some voucher schools". If it's one who is teaching falsehoods it's too many. 
    It boils down to what you choose to believe as the truth. Some of us have a different way of determining the truth, a few of them post here occasionally.
    The line should be drawn at the confluence between education and religion. None of my tax dollars should be used to promote any religious beliefs whatsoever.
    I think all of us benefit from an educated society. That fact is demonstrated here almost continually.
    I think that oppourtunities for prayer and meditation throughout the school day could be a good thing, when pursued privately, for those of us who feel the need for such things. No consessions should be made for this, simply a choice on how you think you need to spend your time.....studying or praying.
    Thats the extent of religion in schools funded with public dollars either fully or partially.
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway. nj
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 3,783 Captain
    The Ark’s top deck had low freeboard.  The dinosaurs due to their longer legs fell off.  It was a little bit tippy. And folks, that is why we have no dinosaurs here with us today. 
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 7,091 Admiral
    Religion is the ultimate fake news 

    God is a woman named Mother Nature.
    When Momma ain't happy ain't nobody happy.

    The ignorant are easily manipulated. 



    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,273 Admiral
    As opposed to public schools that teach nothing? At least these kids can read fairy tales about eating fresh bronto burgers. It is truly sad that public schools are so bad that fringe thumper schools can give kids the basics of education much better then public schools. My kids did k-8 at a catholic school (I paid). They went to public HS and learned next to nothing. My youngest somehow got national honor society and spent his 4 year of HS playing ping pong. He never opened a book. Everything he learned of pounded into him by mom  and dad and catholic school. The oldest went to IB and did JROTC. He learned a ton from JROTC. Oldest is out of college youngest has 2 semesters left. I have little confidence in public school. Although I do feel there are plenty of dedicated and hard working teachers and administrators. I've met many when my kids were in HS. 
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,381 Captain
    Gardawg said:
    Religion is the ultimate fake news 

    God is a woman named Mother Nature.
    When Momma ain't happy ain't nobody happy.

    The ignorant are easily manipulated. 



    People need religion.
    Some believe in gods, some in ideologies. 
    In both cases radicalism is the most dangerous sin, sobriety the most valuable virtue.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,015 Captain
    It's the total.  Yes, they are all private.

    And you are right to question/point out that all of the $1b does not go to these types of schools -- the headline is a bit sensational and misleading.

    Set aside the amount for a moment, do you think that the state should subsidize this type of "education"?
    A bit sensational and misleading? I would say a "bit" more than that. But their nickname isnt the Orlando Slantinal for nothing. As far as the article itself, I see a pile of broad statements with not even one backed up by anything but someone's opinion. Most Christian schools do a much better job educating children than the sorry excuse for public schools we have. Both my kids attended private Christian school. One as second in his class with a 4.04. He got off red a full academic scholarship to UF, anything his Bright Futures didn't cover, the scholarship did. The other went to college on a baseball scholarship. His gpa was a piddling 3.9. Very few things f you would want to match IQ points with either of them at $100.00 a point. But, both vote conservative, so according to some of you very tolerant, non hates on here, they're ignorant. Let's see the Slantniel come up with some hard numbers on where those things are taught. And, let's see them print the name of some of all these fellow no and dropouts that are teaching at those schools. If I posted a conservative leaning article with this much unsubstantiated crap in it, you guys would crucify me. And deservedly so. But because it was printed by one, if not the biggest, left leaning paper in the State, you believe it all. And then call people who disagree with you ignorant. 
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 5,552 Admiral
    How much tax payer funds should be allocated to Islamic Charter Schools?
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    i don't have an issue with vouchers being used at private schools, even religious ones, as long as they meet certain standards and teach facts as well as religious beliefs,

    I don't care what any private school teaches if it doesn't take any state money. if they fail at teaching then the students will suffer when they try to attend college. 

    I do believe there is a small minority of fringe religious schools who should not be part of the voucher program and could not meet any standards. These schools should not be part of the program.

    Set a standard these schools need to meet that does not address religious beliefs and let it go. It is immaterial if a doctor or lawyer or engineer or most other degrees believe young earth or evolution. it is immaterial to the knowledge they need in their field. 




    Mini Mart Magnate

  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 3,441 Captain
    I'd be willing to bet that most "religious" schools outperform public schools across the board regardless of the religious curriculum. My nieces and nephews have all gone to a prominent catholic school in our area (they are not catholic) and have received a outstanding education. If their parents pay taxes for schooling in addition to the private school fees than why can't the private schools get some of the tax money back.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 26,422 AG
    The article mentions "some voucher schools". If it's one who is teaching falsehoods it's too many. 
    It boils down to what you choose to believe as the truth. Some of us have a different way of determining the truth, a few of them post here occasionally.
    The line should be drawn at the confluence between education and religion. None of my tax dollars should be used to promote any religious beliefs whatsoever.
    I think all of us benefit from an educated society. That fact is demonstrated here almost continually.
    I think that oppourtunities for prayer and meditation throughout the school day could be a good thing, when pursued privately, for those of us who feel the need for such things. No consessions should be made for this, simply a choice on how you think you need to spend your time.....studying or praying.
    Thats the extent of religion in schools funded with public dollars either fully or partially.
    If it's my tax dollars. study at school, pray on your own time.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 3,441 Captain
    Mister-Jr said:
    The article mentions "some voucher schools". If it's one who is teaching falsehoods it's too many. 
    It boils down to what you choose to believe as the truth. Some of us have a different way of determining the truth, a few of them post here occasionally.
    The line should be drawn at the confluence between education and religion. None of my tax dollars should be used to promote any religious beliefs whatsoever.
    I think all of us benefit from an educated society. That fact is demonstrated here almost continually.
    I think that oppourtunities for prayer and meditation throughout the school day could be a good thing, when pursued privately, for those of us who feel the need for such things. No consessions should be made for this, simply a choice on how you think you need to spend your time.....studying or praying.
    Thats the extent of religion in schools funded with public dollars either fully or partially.
    If it's my tax dollars. study at school, pray on your own time.
    What if it is my tax dollars and want them to pray. See, it works both ways.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 7,613 Admiral
    Mister-Jr said:
    If it's my tax dollars. study at school, pray on your own time.
    Good, don't send your children there then! Problem solved.
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
    II Chronicles 7:14

    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 26,422 AG

    Anyone remember Thomas Jefferson?
    Vote for the other candidate
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 3,586 Captain
    Yes
    What about Thomas Jefferson?


    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway. nj
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 3,441 Captain
    Mister-Jr said:

    Anyone remember Thomas Jefferson?
    That is why they are "private" schools. Seperation of church and state. That does not mean that they  cannot receive tax dollars or tax breaks as most organized religions do.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 3,586 Captain
    Mister-Jr said:
    The article mentions "some voucher schools". If it's one who is teaching falsehoods it's too many. 
    It boils down to what you choose to believe as the truth. Some of us have a different way of determining the truth, a few of them post here occasionally.
    The line should be drawn at the confluence between education and religion. None of my tax dollars should be used to promote any religious beliefs whatsoever.
    I think all of us benefit from an educated society. That fact is demonstrated here almost continually.
    I think that oppourtunities for prayer and meditation throughout the school day could be a good thing, when pursued privately, for those of us who feel the need for such things. No consessions should be made for this, simply a choice on how you think you need to spend your time.....studying or praying.
    Thats the extent of religion in schools funded with public dollars either fully or partially.
    If it's my tax dollars. study at school, pray on your own time.
    That means we agree....I just threw up in mouth a tad.....yuck.
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway. nj
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 26,422 AG
    Mister-Jr said:
    The article mentions "some voucher schools". If it's one who is teaching falsehoods it's too many. 
    It boils down to what you choose to believe as the truth. Some of us have a different way of determining the truth, a few of them post here occasionally.
    The line should be drawn at the confluence between education and religion. None of my tax dollars should be used to promote any religious beliefs whatsoever.
    I think all of us benefit from an educated society. That fact is demonstrated here almost continually.
    I think that oppourtunities for prayer and meditation throughout the school day could be a good thing, when pursued privately, for those of us who feel the need for such things. No consessions should be made for this, simply a choice on how you think you need to spend your time.....studying or praying.
    Thats the extent of religion in schools funded with public dollars either fully or partially.
    If it's my tax dollars. study at school, pray on your own time.
    That means we agree....I just threw up in mouth a tad.....yuck.
    You could have done worse.  Cheers!
    Vote for the other candidate
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,015 Captain
    It doesn't bother any of you that not even one of the papers claims is backed up with any kind of evidence? I guess since it's on the internet, it must be true.
  • Baits OutBaits Out Posts: 12,266 AG
    My two granddaughters went/is going to a local Episcopal school, mainly for the great academics (far beyond public schools in this area). 

    I approve since that school does not focus on proselytizing the "Pray Jeebus" nonsense.


    ;)



    I’m only responsible for what I say -- not for what others think they understand.

    Be careful when you follow the masses. Sometimes the "m" is silent.

    America! Keep calm and return fire.

    :USA
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 23,689 AG
    pottydoc said:
    It doesn't bother any of you that not even one of the papers claims is backed up with any kind of evidence? I guess since it's on the internet, it must be true.
    I don't doubt a small minority of private schools could not meet a standardized curriculum requirement. I do believe the opinion piece is opposed to vouchers and over exaggerating the issue. Do you have a problem with setting a standard for all schools to follow? Heck, I bet a few public schools could meet a standard. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 7,613 Admiral
    cadman said:
    pottydoc said:
    It doesn't bother any of you that not even one of the papers claims is backed up with any kind of evidence? I guess since it's on the internet, it must be true.
    I don't doubt a small minority of private schools could not meet a standardized curriculum requirement. I do believe the opinion piece is opposed to vouchers and over exaggerating the issue. Do you have a problem with setting a standard for all schools to follow? Heck, I bet a few public schools could meet a standard. 
    I have a problem with a Godless Government agency setting standards for a Christian School! Public education is the problem, not the solution. They are dumbing people down fasted than the Titanic sank.
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
    II Chronicles 7:14

    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 1,441 Officer
    The most-read book in American colleges is the communist manifesto....
    sounds to me like the govt-run public school system did a horrible job... 

    I don't care what religion you are; so long as your beliefs don't harm others. 

    Communism and socialist govts killed 100s of millions of people in the 20th century.  And I imagine most of the public school teachers support their ideologies.... That's more dangerous to me than any religion
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