EFP for the select few

harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
edited April 20 in Conservation Front #1
Friday, April 20, 2018
Two fishery bills undercut progress... Tampa Bay Times
Double Eagle Fleet  Clearwater, Florida
Captain Chad Haggert
  For boats like mine (Double Eagle Fleet) a system (exempted fishing permit or EFP) was designed  that allows us to take customer out fishing whenever we wanted throughout the year, modeled after the CATCH SHARE system that has 'helped' commercial fishermen improve management of their sector.
HR  200 and S 1520 would impose unnecessary restrictions or burying them in bureaucratic red tape. HR 200, in particular, would establish a set or requirements that would make EFP's very difficult to use. "HR 200 would also ban the use of EFP's to test new catch share programs, a 'proven' management tool. HR 200 and S 1520 are unnecessary and threaten the progress being made by fishermen"  Chad Haggert
  "allows us to take customer out fishing whenever we wanted throughout the year". QUESTION: Why should only 'our customers' be allowed to fish whenever we wanted throughout the year? What ever happened to an open fishery for one & all? Available stocks should be available for all, not just 'our customers'. Our national interest are not well served by granting exclusive access to common property to an extremely small group of headboat operators seeking to increase their profitability.


Fishing for the Facts about the Modern Fish Act S. 1520

Alexandria, VA – February 28, 2018 – Today, the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation overwhelmingly approved S. 1520, the Modernizing Recreational Fisheries Management Act of 2017 (Modern Fish Act). This legislation calls for critically important updates to the oversight of federal fisheries, including adding more tools to the management toolbox, improving data collection techniques, and examining some fishery allocations that are based on decades-old decisions.

Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2018

By Chris Horton, Fisheries Program Director, Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation

Let’s look at some of the key provisions of the Modern Fish Act from both the fiction being told and the facts of the matter.

Alternative management measures for recreational fisheries

  • FICTION - S. 1520 would, “Inappropriately exempt the recreational sector from the necessary management discipline imposed by annual catch limits and accountability measures.”
  • FACT – This provision simply frees the Councils to consider more appropriate recreational fisheries management measures when hard-poundage annual catch limits (ACL’s) are not effective. It does not exempt the recreational fisheries from adhering to annual harvest constraints. In fact, in a report from the Gulf Council’s Science and Statistical Committee on the feasibility of these alternative management measures proposed in the Modern Fish Act – “They noted that extraction rates, fishing mortality targets and harvest control rules could easily be implemented as catch limits…”

Flexibility in rebuilding timelines

  • FICTION – “Injects too much flexibility and ambiguity into the rebuilding timeline for overfished stocks.”
  • FACT – Both H.R. 2023 and S. 1520 eliminate arbitrary rebuilding timelines and replaces with a biologically-based timeline relative to individual species. It’s interesting to see organizations that claim to support science-based decision making opposing an effort to ensure that rebuilding plans are based on science, not an arbitrary 10-year requirement that has no scientific basis. 

Temporary Moratorium on Limited Access Privilege Programs (catch shares)

  • FICTION – “Both the moratorium and the study are unnecessary and unwise”. 
  • FACT – Of course this would be considered “unwise”, coming from the primary environmental organization that has received millions from foundations like the Walker Foundation and the Walton Family Foundation to push catch shares on both commercial and recreational fisheries. What they are concerned about is that the study by the National Academy of Sciences required by this provision might find that catch share programs may not be such a good idea in mixed-use fisheries. 

Process for allocation review

  • FICTION – “Such reviews would divert significant resources from compelling management issues without significantly improving recreational fishermen satisfaction.”
  • FACT – Reallocation of quota between sectors is a difficult, exceedingly contentious process, much of which is caused by the ambiguity of what metrics the Council should weigh in making those decisions. To make periodic reallocation reviews more efficient, this provision simply requires the National Academy of Science to provide some clear criteria to consider. In the case of red snapper in the Gulf of Mexico, the allocation between the commercial and recreational sectors was set more than 20-years ago, using data 10-years prior. Fisheries change over time, and with today’s technologies, families have an opportunity to catch their fish themselves, rather than just purchasing from someone who profits from the resource like a restaurant or seafood market.
  • Chris Horton
«1

Replies

  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain

    H.R. 200: Strengthening Fishing Communities and Increasing Flexibility in Fisheries Management Act Landmark Legislation to Benefit Saltwater Anglers Advances in U.S. House

    House Natural Resources Committee Approves Magnuson-Stevens Reauthorization Bill

    Washington, D.C. – December 13, 2017 – Today, the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Natural Resources approved H.R. 200, a bill sponsored by Congressman Don Young (R-Alaska) that amends the 1976 Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act to provide flexibility for fishery managers and stability for fishermen. A coalition of organizations representing the saltwater recreational fishing and boating community endorsed H.R. 200 and highlighted the importance of incorporating saltwater recreational fishing management provisions into the nation’s primary law governing federal fisheries management.

    Coastal Conservative Association... CCA

    MISSION STATEMENT

    The purpose of CCA is to advise and educate the public on conservation of marine resources. The objective of CCA is to conserve, promote, and enhance the present and future availability of those coastal resources for the benefit and enjoyment of the general public.


    Not only is this EFP flawed from a purely technical perspective, it is difficult to comprehend that such a program would be given serious consideration given the very high levels of political and popular opposition to sector separation and catch shares

    Touted as an experiment to provide accurate and timely landings data, we believe that the primary goal of this EFP is to pave the way for allowing separate allocations of common property resources to the for-hire and private boat recreational fishing sectors and the ultimate creation of a catch shares program in the recreational sector. The application for this EFP has been careful to avoid the use of the terms “catch share” or “sector separation,” but it is clear that it tests a catch share that would depend on sector separation. 
    The most that this EFP will show is that a small number of vessels, when granted the right to fish when it is illegal for everyone else to fish, will be more profitable. That conclusion needs no test. Artificially controlling supply in the face of pent-up demand will increase prices, pure and simple. This application fails to make any case for why the government should allow an EFP to be granted when it will provide no other benefit than to line the pockets of a very few headboat captains.
     In 2009, NOAA Fisheries funded a Bioeconomic Analysis of the Red Snapper Rebuilding Plan and Transferable Rights Policies in the Gulf of Mexico (Wade and Woodward). That STUDY, which has been presented to the Gulf Council, revealed that the net present value of the total Gulf reef fish and shrimp fisheries over the timeframe 2009 – 2032 is estimated at $11.8 billion dollars. The for-hire sector is estimated to generate 7% of this total.  The private vessel recreational sector accounts for 77% of this value and yet it is currently being virtually shut out of the fishery through proposals such as this EFP. If NOAA Fisheries wished to generate real economic value for the benefit of all the people of this nation, it can accomplish that goal by actively seeking reallocation of red snapper to the recreational sector.  Our national interests are not well served by granting exclusive access to common property resources to an extremely small group of headboat operators seeking to increase their profitability.

    Want an open fishery for one and all, or for "our customers" only? S. 1520, and H.R. 200 represents ALL, not just the 'select few'.
    Bob Harbison
    Florida Outdoor Writers Asociation


  • drgibbydrgibby Posts: 1,200 Officer
    Read that wonderful editorial this afternoon after fishing offshore all day and releasing countless fish I could not keep.
    Typical Times one-sided piece of shi* journalism. Almost as bad as the one Kenyon did a couple of years ago. What are we ever going to do if the Double eagle fleet can`t fish year round for every species that lives in the gulf. And here I thought they only fished grunts............Thinking about writing a rebutal for the first time in my life, doubt it would get printed...............
    Thanks for posting Mr. H.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited April 21 #4
    "Read that wonderful editorial this afternoon after fishing offshore all day and releasing countless fish I could not keep."
    Know what you mean. Was on the Florida Fisherman 4/6. Fished the Florida Middle Grounds, threw back well over 100 American reds, as well as a ton of gags. It hurts! 
    Been fishing Central Florida waters ever since the late forties. Have always believed strongly in an open fishery for everyone, not just a select few. The Double Eagle Fleet has always been big supporters of shares/separation. When NOAA came up with the head boat collaborate program, they were the first to jump on the band wagon. Hubbard's & their # 1 competition, the Gulf Star, wanted no part of it. 
    "Thinking about writing a rebutal for the first time in my life, doubt it would get printed..............."
       Please do!  I am going to forward to the Times the thread I just shared. 

  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,570 Captain
    edited April 23 #5
    I guess Capt. Haggart is referring to the headboat EFP a while back where the Feds' gave 17 heaboats an inordinate amount of fish tags to "test" the concept of Catch Shares in the recreational sector.  Capt. John in Galveston got almost 9,000 tags for example on a boat that holds 80 people - that's enough for 112 fully loaded trips.  Some boats on the east side of the Gulf (possibly the Double Eagle fleet) would charge their customers the normal rate to go fishing and then offer a "bonus" - for $25, you could catch and keep 1 red snapper.   So those willing to pay for what they already own, (on a trip that they already paid for) can keep a fish to take home to eat.  It's called extracting a royalty payment from the American recreational fishermen for a Public Trust Resource that the headboat owner didn't pay a penny for, and putting 100% of that royalty in their private bank account.  That just ain't right.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited April 23 #6
    When Lubchenco was first appointed (by Obama) to NOAA she immediately brought her EDF gang with her. Their number one goal... catch shares for the recreational entity. The quest continues:
     "I guess Capt. Haggart is referring to the headboat EFP a while back where the Feds' gave 17 heaboats an inordinate amount of fish tags to "test" the concept of Catch Shares in the recreational sector."  The Double Eagle did not charge $25.00, they simply raised their price $100.00.
    When this version of Catch Shares was adopted in 2014-2015, Headboat Collaborative Pilot Program, Clearwater's Double Eagle Fleet was the first to jump on the band wagon. Their reasoning was, and continues to be, "that allows us to take customer out fishing whenever we wanted throughout the year". The question remains, why only the customers of the Double Eagle? What about everyone else. Must we be a, "we wanted" customer to fish, "throughout the year"?
  • Capt. C.Capt. C. Posts: 24 Greenhorn
    My Lord. Is this rhetoric still going on? Haven't logged on in awhile, but Mr. Harbison is still on here spreading his BS. Yes, the Double Eagle signed onto an exempted fishing permit that lasted 2 years. Contrary to your posts, Mr. Harbison, the Gulfstar was in the program both years and the Florida Fisherman filed an application for the second year, but filed it too late. Please post the facts. Last year during the CFH season, the Double Eagle landed over 2000 ARS. During the EFP, we landed 800 each of the 2 years. We were able to spread the fish out over the duration of the year when it was best for us and our customers. A customer living in Michigan who is planting his corn field in June may be better served coming to FL to catch an ARS in January. We all are looking for more access, right?? We took LESS fish than we would normally catch during the CFH season for the ability to take our customers out when they wanted to go. I am much happier landing 1200+ less fish than I normally would, so long as I have the ability to target said fish when my customers desire. And contrary to popular belief, we only charged our normal prices!! I'll kiss your "Harbison" if you can find a customer of the Double Eagle that paid "extra" to harvest an ARS. Much better than  running trips year round and releasing these fish to "Hopefully" survive being brought up from those depths,like some boats I know! We are, after all, looking out for the species RIGHT?? If the bills in congress were to pass, you would nto have the State EFP's that will be here for the next two years. You do know they gave each state a "quota" to manage, right???? Isn't that a "Catch share"?? Its nice to know that if I need to "spar" a couple rounds, I can always rely on the the BS posts on this forum to satisfy my needs. Thank you all........especially you Mr. Harbison
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,570 Captain
    Catch Shares are when the government gifts ownership of the fish to corporations to do with as they please.  Of course you would want to take customers fishing to catch less fish if those fish become your personal assets - 800 x 8 pounds x $40/pound = over 1/4 million dollars given to you for FREE.

    AMs 41 and 42 have expanded their scope to now include not only red snapper, but amberjack, triggerfish, gag groupers, and red groupers.   If these are implemented, (and they are the Gulf Councils preferred option), then how many more hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets does that mean for the Double Eagle?

    So you are saying that no headboats in the EFP charged a $25 “bonus on top of their normal rates to keep a red snapper?   We both know the answer to that so don’t pretend that this wouldn’t be the norm if Catch Shares are implemented in the for-hire sector.  Captains in Alaska are charging $7/pound on top of their normal charter rates for halibut that their customers catch and want to keep.  

    It’s clear where this is heading.  Don’t play us (and your customers) for fools.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,415 Admiral
    Catch Shares are when the government gifts ownership of the fish to corporations to do with as they please.  Of course you would want to take customers fishing to catch less fish if those fish become your personal assets - 800 x 8 pounds x $40/pound = over 1/4 million dollars given to you for FREE.

    AMs 41 and 42 have expanded their scope to now include not only red snapper, but amberjack, triggerfish, gag groupers, and red groupers.   If these are implemented, (and they are the Gulf Councils preferred option), then how many more hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets does that mean for the Double Eagle?

    So you are saying that no headboats in the EFP charged a $25 “bonus on top of their normal rates to keep a red snapper?   We both know the answer to that so don’t pretend that this wouldn’t be the norm if Catch Shares are implemented in the for-hire sector.  Captains in Alaska are charging $7/pound on top of their normal charter rates for halibut that their customers catch and want to keep.  

    It’s clear where this is heading.  Don’t play us (and your customers) for fools.
    I believe he was talking about their boats amigo,
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,570 Captain
    I know exactly what he was trying to do - reality is that if Catch Shares are implemented in theGulf for-hire fishery, ownership of hundreds of thousands of dollars of OUR Public Trust Resources would be transferred to his company to do with what he pleases.   Just because they didn’t charge the $25 bonus like other headboats did in the headboat EFP doesn’t mean they won’t charge it in the future when/if Catch Shares come into play Amigo.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    VESTED INTEREST!  Better check your so called 'facts'!  
     "Its nice to know that if I need to "spar" a couple rounds, I can always rely on the the BS posts on this forum to satisfy my needs. Thank you all........especially you Mr. Harbison"  
    Not from me you can't. I am better than that! 
      
  • Capt. C.Capt. C. Posts: 24 Greenhorn
    If you are better than that, then leave out your false statements (i.e. Gulfstar opposed to EFP. Gulfstar and Florida Fisherman opposed to sector separation, etc). Why are these companies profiting off the days the CFH have received under  amendment 40?? Oh wait, you have stated that they were forced into taking those days. Sounds good for "talking points", but I'm sure their profits have increased. Profits over ideals...hmmm....does that make them "Greedy" business owners, like you accuse me of being?? No, it makes them smart business owners. You can have absolutely NO idea of what my ideas are because you do not take the time to speak with the persons you are accusing. I have supported measures to provide more access to the private recreational fisherman and will continue to do so. I am optimistic that these state managed pilot programs will offer some relief for this user group. Looking at the management that some states have looked at( Fri, Sat & Sun seasons, Holidays, etc) may does not sound bad for them, but as a business owner, I run 7 days a week. This is just one example of the issues and different management approaches that these to user groups face. While the statement" we are all rec fisherman" is true, we have different ideas and approaches for managing access to the resource. I may be wrong, but I do not recall a big push from the likes of CCA, FRA, etc. when rule 30b was established. Same "rec" fisherman there, but I recall a big cheer when they denied access to Federally Permitted vessels in state waters when federal waters were closed. Just my opinion.

    You, Mr. Hilton, are spreading the same BS you have been for several years. I wish these "gifted" fish that I received made me $250k extra each year. You continually bring up the "$25" per fish charge that boats in the EFP did. FALSE AGAIN. ONE boat advertised that the first week. Other boats in the EFP contacted them and they removed that. This was not the intent of boats in the EFP, to charge the non-boat owning public an "extra" fee to harvest these fish. I've stated many times on here, that if we were attempting to be "gifted" these fish, why would we offer to receive less fish than can be harvested during a regular season?? Once again, my boats harvested over 2000 ARS during the season last year. We made 800 work during 2 years of EFP. This works as a business model for several reasons. Not all of my customers are interested in these fish. Some that are interested live in areas where, due to their livelihoods, cannot take advantage of THEIR right to harvest these fish with a summer season. By being able to "spread" the access out over the course of the year(mind you, harvesting less fish than we do during summer season) we are able to provide the access requested by our clientele. Once again, at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE!!! The benefit to me, as the business owner?? Scheduling trips to target these species when other trips are not being booked and a desire, from our customer base, to have access to these fish is there. That is the purpose behind amendment 41. Other boats have found ways to capitalize off the "derby" season, and some have found ways to run special "catch share experience" trips. One, in my opinion, skirts the law by doing this. But that is not up to me to enforce or change. The other is a way to rush customers out several times a day, during the season, to box a limit of fish as fast as possible to get in and load the next customers on the boat and do it over again as many times a day as they can. I do not think that is the best option either, but again it is not my place to judge their business model. Your math seems to be a bit off as well when speaking of the the amount of days a certain boat was "gifted" during EFP. 80 passenger capacity with a 2 fish limit....160 fish per day. 9000 "gifted" fish with a max daily limit....56.5 days, not 112 as you stated previously. 5 more days than the current CFH season. And to my recollection, the 9000 is a bit high.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    Wow! It's very easy to see how the recreational fishermen are so easily controlled. We do not need NOAA, Pew, the Walton Foundation, or even the EDF to destroy us... we can do that all by ourselves. 

    . "Why are these companies profiting off the days the CFH have received under  amendment 40?" 
     They want to keep the doors open.   Competition demands it. EDF's  NOAA knows that. Ever hear of 'divide & conquer'?  The Crabtree Gang & NOAA has. 

    Amendment 40 is a prime example!  Hubbard's Marina and Amendment 40:

     Hubbard’s Marina DOES NOT and has NEVER SUPPORTED SECTOR SEPARATION so before you think that we are happy with 3 day season for recreational anglers and our 49 day season for red snapper first realize that we have vehemently opposed this idea since it was first ever discussed and begged the recreational anglers to get involved in fighting against Sector separation (amendment 40) when that didn’t work we waiting till the sunset provision when it came up for a reinstatement and again we vehemently opposed it and urged recreational anglers to join us.    As seen on here many recreational anglers are too busy fighting among themselves to ever "join us"   

    "You can have absolutely NO idea of what my ideas are because you do not take the time to speak with the persons you are accusing".  Absolutely 100% correct. Not worth my time! 
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    Same complaints about headboats two years after pilot program ended.  This all comes from Washington and you are fighting each other.  Hubbard' kills more red snapper a year than any other boat brings to the dock....  why didn' you post any picks of poaching red grouper on the 172ft go get em spot this year Harbison?
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    It's interesting to see how the 100 ton masters are categorized  as greenhorns on this forum .   Guess I need to complain more to be called a captain.   
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,017 Captain
    It's got nothing to do with what you do for a living, and everything to do with how many posts you have. Do you really give a dang about what's under your screen name? If it's that big a deal, ask Griz to give you my Captain ranking, or whatever they call it. I don't believe I'll lose any sleep over a rank on a fishing forum. 
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    Me either, just funny that they call someone a captain that can't tell bow from stern
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited May 1 #18
    23 hours ago I published an action packed on the water video. It has already been visited 364 times. Within a few weeks it will have been enjoyed by over a thousand. This is why I do what I do. 
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    And you still didn't answer my question...... 
  • CaptECaptE Posts: 91 Greenhorn
    Free trips, cash, ?
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    And you still didn't answer my question......  NO  NOT WORTH MY TIME!

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,882 Admiral
    I'm no greenhorn (lol), and I'll answer it for him:  Bob gets free trips in return for his shill posts here.



  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited May 31 #23
    Ever wonder why sportsmen's forums do not generate the interest, positive interaction,  or sharing of on the water, in the field, experiences of years gone by?  The answer is really very simple...  "Guess I need to complain more to be called a captain".  For way too many 'complain', criticizing, and  me, me ,me  has become more common-place, exciting, than sharing!


    Hey tarp... so much for stopping the criticism. How about a positive on the water report for a change.
    Calling it like it is...  If one does not desire to be called a

    he/she should not act like one.
    Free trips: Typical Greenhorn... sticking nose where it does not belong... FULL OF BULL!

    Shill photos: My latest sharing of our Florida with Real sportsmen/women has been viewed 614 times on F/S alone in its first 8 days.

     The accompanying video just hit the 1,000 mark. If that is 'Shill' I will take it any day.
    I love our state & our great sport. Sharing Paradise is a passion with me. 
    Interesting how the 'know-it-all' G. Horns, first to criticize -  last to share, post so much & say so little. 
    Case in point:
    "the EDF is hardly the boogeyman you seem to think they are, and catch shares is WAY down their list of priorities."
    You lost a great deal of creditability with that erroneous assumption. You were proven wrong. Get you FACTS straight... search EDF & recreational catch shares, sickening to the max! 
    I am getting ready for what looks to be a tremendous ARS season. Leaving 6/1 for a 44 hour ARS Florida Middle Grounds trip. As always it will be a great honor to share with the many F/S true sportsmen while ignoring the full of bull know-it-all gang; we are better than that!
    Here is wishing all a most productive ARS season. All indications are it will be a very good one. Please share you great caches with us. 

    Tarpon under a bridge:  
    Developed this most exciting type of fishing into a real art form over a 1/2 century ago. My favorite stomping grounds was the Howard Franklin Bridge. On a good night, calm, fast moving either-direction tide, the fishing was outstanding. It was nothing to jump 25 a night. Watching a monster tarpon take a live pin fish 2 feet under your feet was absolutely amazing. It's been many years now, but I will never forget the adrenalin rush, the pure excitement! For the last 30+ years I have been concentrating on off shore fishing. Would love to know if under the bridge tarpon fishing is still as good as it was many years ago. Please share you experiences.  
     
     


  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited May 31 #24
    Guys, we have been catching tons of American reds. In fact in many areas the very aggressive red snapper appear to be taking over many of the off shore reefs.  Often, no mater how hard we try, it's impossible to get away from them. Hopefully the longer season will help control them. In addition, we need a realistic possession limit.  Very strict regulations are needed, but these regulations must take not only red snapper, but all species into consideration.  On the Middle Grounds & Elbow we are not seeing the mangrove snapper we should be seeing. Looks like the American reds are dominating. 
             




         
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 417 Deckhand
    edited May 31 #25

    harbison said:
    Hey tarp... so much for stopping the criticism. How about a positive on the water report for a change.
    Calling it like it is...  If one does not desire to be called a
    All those blasts are fishing reports? Oh.  I thought it was shameless advertising.  Unmoderated forums have serious shortcomings when it comes to being a valuable resource.  I just stopped looking at anything you originally post.  Spam as far as I'm concerned. 


  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,882 Admiral
    harbison said:
    Ever wonder why sportsmen's forums do not generate the interest, positive interaction,  or sharing of on the water, in the field, experiences of years gone by?  The answer is really very simple...  "Guess I need to complain more to be called a captain".  For way too many 'complain', criticizing, and  me, me ,me  has become more common-place, exciting, than sharing!


    Hey tarp... so much for stopping the criticism. How about a positive on the water report for a change.
    Calling it like it is...  If one does not desire to be called a

    he/she should not act like one.
    Free trips: Typical Greenhorn... sticking nose where it does not belong... FULL OF BULL!

    Shill photos: My latest sharing of our Florida with Real sportsmen/women has been viewed 614 times on F/S alone in its first 8 days.

     The accompanying video just hit the 1,000 mark. If that is 'Shill' I will take it any day.
    I love our state & our great sport. Sharing Paradise is a passion with me. 
    Interesting how the 'know-it-all' G. Horns, first to criticize -  last to share, post so much & say so little. 
    Case in point:
    "the EDF is hardly the boogeyman you seem to think they are, and catch shares is WAY down their list of priorities."
    You lost a great deal of creditability with that erroneous assumption. You were proven wrong. Get you FACTS straight... search EDF & recreational catch shares, sickening to the max! 
    I am getting ready for what looks to be a tremendous ARS season. Leaving 6/1 for a 44 hour ARS Florida Middle Grounds trip. As always it will be a great honor to share with the many F/S true sportsmen while ignoring the full of bull know-it-all gang; we are better than that!
    Here is wishing all a most productive ARS season. All indications are it will be a very good one. Please share you great caches with us. 

    Tarpon under a bridge:  
    Developed this most exciting type of fishing into a real art form over a 1/2 century ago. My favorite stomping grounds was the Howard Franklin Bridge. On a good night, calm, fast moving either-direction tide, the fishing was outstanding. It was nothing to jump 25 a night. Watching a monster tarpon take a live pin fish 2 feet under your feet was absolutely amazing. It's been many years now, but I will never forget the adrenalin rush, the pure excitement! For the last 30+ years I have been concentrating on off shore fishing. Would love to know if under the bridge tarpon fishing is still as good as it was many years ago. Please share you experiences.  
     
     


    Hi Bob,

    The fact remains you are compensated for your posts on this forum.

    Just like the facts are I've been sharing and posting and helping folks on this forum for more than a decade, and I've never received a thing in return for any of them. 

    You might try doing more of that instead of your shill posts (or EDF conspiracy theory straight from the FRA/RFA) and perhaps your posts here would be more warmly received.

    Just an idea...Mike

  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited May 31 #27
    Question:  Who compensates me?  Really need to know where I can check into this. 
    Sharing & helping.  All I see is hate & criticism. 
    FRA/RFA:  Belong to or consult neither.  
    EDF:  I, differently from some, do my research. Take the time, effort, to do as I do... search EDF and recreational catch shares. You will be amazed, shocked, at the facts, not theory! 
    "I've been sharing and posting and helping folks on this forum for more than a decade"  Is that all?  Been sharing, helping, our Florida all over the country for well over 1/2 a century. 
    "shill posts"  Don't like it... don't read it!
    Warmly received:  My post have been, and continue to be, "warmly received" all over the country. As as examples, check there out from from California:
    "Look at those queen snappers..... Love it."
    "I have said it before, and I will say it again. The variety is amazing."
    "Really enjoy and appreciate your reports. Have to make time to get out there fishing with y'all"
    "Great write-up as always, Bob!"

    This one I am extremely proud of:
    "Thanks for the great pictures and reports from your beautiful state, Bob!"

    More positive reports, less hate, less criticism, may result in 'more warmly received'. Just an idea... Bob

    Spending the first weekend of American red snapper/gag grouper season on the Florida Middle Grounds. Will provide a full on the water pictorial report along with an action packed video.  It will be a great honor to share our Florida all over the country, but please, leave the hate, criticism, behind. Bob H. 

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,882 Admiral
    edited May 31 #28
    Hi Bob,

    If you are suggesting that I've not done my research on this, I am sorry to say that you are mistaken.   I know this issue just as well as you do -- we just disagree.

    Since you seem so enamored by views, I might point out a video we did a few years ago that has more than a million of them.  Not that any of that silliness matters.  It's only a distraction....
     
    So we are clear:  It is my understanding that Hubbard's is compensating you in the form of free or discounted trips.

    If you don't like what I'm saying, please take your own advice and don't read it or respond to it.  Or perhaps you might simply be transparent rather than make more memes about me -- I'm touched, but please, let's just be honest.

    Thanks...Mike

    p.s. if you'd like to discuss tarpon fishing, rather than the "hate and criticism" on this topic and your Hubbard's posts, please feel free to join me/us in any number of discussions about that in the General Fishing, West Central, or Southwest forums.  I don't recall you posting much in them, but you'd be a welcome voice.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    The FACT that EDF infiltrated NOAA is well established. The FACT that EDF is strong into the promotion of recreational catch shares is well established. The FACT that EDF influenced the re-write of M/S is well established. 
    Video: Sir, I am really into video. I spent a great deal of time into learning & developing my editing skills. Never-the-less, I will be the first to admit I have a great deal to learn. My eyes, ears, are always open. Any help, suggestions, would be greatly appreciated. 
    Check this one out. It's about as good as I am able to do. 

    https://youtu.be/r4RZxmie044 

    I do not pretend to be an expert. But I give it everything I have. 
    Hubbards: Let's set the record straight. I was a paid customer of Hubbard's for decades. I, as they, believe in family value. Hubbard's has now been family owned and operated for four generations. I, as every customer, am treated as family. I am a Florida native who is thankful for living, fishing, hunting, a lifetime in Paradise. To me sharing is pay-back for what all Florida has meant to me. I graduated from Jesuit High School in 1961. While earning my degree in Psychology from the University of Tampa I became very interested in photography, in sharing what all our great sport, great state, have to offer. I wrote many articles for the Tampa Tribune, Tampa Times, Big Game Fish Journal, and our own Woods'nWater magazine, etc. I am a long time proud member of the Florida Outdoor Writers Association.  About five years ago I became so involved in on the water, in the field, photography that I stopped fishing all together. Some how putting a huge ear to ear grin on fellow anglers, fellow hunters, faces became more important to me that fishing. My detailed reports do just that. I am often told 'Bob I feel like I was on the boat, in the field, with you'. I cannot begin to tell you how much that means to me. 
    I am affiliated with Hubbard's Marina in no official capacity. I am not paid a dime by Hubbard's. However, "It is my understanding that Hubbard's is compensating you in the form of free or discounted trips." That is true! I do the exact same for the FWC. Former directer, Nick Wiley, called me his Florida Ambassador. I have personally witnessed the hard working FWC biologist. I appreciate their dedication and show it by helping in any way I can. 

    My works is often used by the FWC.  For this I receive no payment. Knowing I am helping is payment in full! Same with the Florida Fisherman ll, putting a big smile on someones face is payment in full!

    Tarpon fishing: During my Jesuit and University of Tampa days I was really heavy into tarpon fishing. I fished the Tampa Tarpon Tournament for years. For the really big boys I fished all around Davis Islands & the Tampa Estuary. My favorite bate was lady fish. For more action, but smaller fish, I fished under various brides at night. Favorite bate, big, lively, pin fish. 
    My idle was the legend himself, Captain Bobby Buswell:

     Bobby is still alive & kicking. He and I still correspond.    
    Gotta go!   Leaving early tomorrow for the Florida Middle Grounds; back Sunday. Will provide a full report, (West Central) with on the water video, next week. Will probably publish late Monday evening. Hope you like it!  Bob H. 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,882 Admiral
    edited June 1 #30
    harbison said:
    The FACT that EDF infiltrated NOAA is well established. The FACT that EDF is strong into the promotion of recreational catch shares is well established. The FACT that EDF influenced the re-write of M/S is well established. 
     
    Hi Bob.  The FACT is there are no catch shares in the recreational fishery.  You have been crying wolf on this point for a long time, but nothing has changed this FACT. 

    As much as you or anyone else might detest their position, there's nothing wrong with the EDF -- a recognized leader in the space -- with influencing anything, despite your believe in they are the boogeyman.  As much as you migth not like it, they are a voice in this, not unlike the CCA or RFA or FRA....and the headboat and commercial collaboratives and organizations.  
    harbison said:
    Video: Sir, I am really into video. I spent a great deal of time into learning & developing my editing skills. Never-the-less, I will be the first to admit I have a great deal to learn. My eyes, ears, are always open. Any help, suggestions, would be greatly appreciated. 
    Check this one out. It's about as good as I am able to do. 

    https://youtu.be/r4RZxmie044 

    I do not pretend to be an expert. But I give it everything I have. 
    Nobody is questioning your efforts or expertise, Bob.   Certainly not me.  I can tell you take a lot of time and care about your reports.   However, I am questioning your motivation for (and transparency in) doing so:
    harbison said:
    However, "It is my understanding that Hubbard's is compensating you in the form of free or discounted trips." That is true! 
    That's all you had to say, Bob, and confirms quite clearly what we both knew as true.  Thanks.

    Thanks for sharing those pics of Bobby -- I knew him only second-hand.  These days, sardines work better than pinfish at the HF -- the fish are much warrier than they used to be.  Good luck on your trip...Mike

  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,532 Captain
    edited June 1 #31
    My motivation has been, and will always be, to showcase Florida and to make people happy. This gentleman drove 1,000 miles to fish on the Florida. He took the time to thank me for helping him have a wonderful time. That big smile says it all!

    This is why I do what I do. Without me this gentleman, and many like him, would have no record of their trophies. He offered me a $20.00 tip. I refused. Taking money for helping to make people happy is simply not Bob. A hand shake, and a big smile, is payment in full.
    EDF:  We are both entitled to our opinions. Their influence has been well documented.  Sorry but EDF, Pew, Walton Foundation, etc. do not represent an open fishery.  EDF & Pew have both openly pitched catch shares for the recreational sector. And then there is Walton. It has been absolutely proven, through tax records, that the Walton Foundation has donated multi-thousands of dollars to EDF earmarked for catch shares. Hopefully, a strong public outcry will CONTINUE to make a difference. 
    Captain Bobby Buswell:  King & tarpon fished next to him for years. Bobby was a legend in his own time.  I admire him as much as I have ever admired any man.  We talked many times on the old ship to shore radios. Captain Bobby Buswell left a lasting impression on me. I will never forget him.  Here is Bobby today:

    Sir, if you have tarpon fished under the HF Bridge at night, I would love to swap stories with you. Decades ago I all but lived under the Franklin. Caught a lot of huge cobia also. My favorite bate for cobia was live Summer trout. We caught some monsters. Fished on the bottom at night for them. Had to use very heavy tackle. Man! They knew where the pilings were and how to use them. Don't remember ever loosing a tarpon to the pilings. They were more into jumping and throwing the hook. Boy! Were they ever good at it.  Remember a lot of tripletail drifting on top of the water. That's one fish I never figured out how to catch. Caught & released some monster sharks while cobia fishing.  
    This brings back so many fond memories. Loved to fish Tampa Bay. Remember the huge Spring mackerel schools by Gandy Bridge? How about the great trout fishing on the Tampa Middle Grounds? I have even scalloped on the miles of grass flats that were then along the CC Causeway.  And then there was crabbing. The list, the memories, go on and on.
    I started fishing Tampa Bay in the late forties, sure was different then. Must have been the early sixties when I started Gulf fishing. Have been doing so ever since. To share the Florida I remember, the Florida today, and the Florida tomorrow is my life. I could go on & on, but this old man must go to bed. I have my Cannon still camera, and my Sonny video camera charged up & ready to go. Florida Middle Grounds, here I come!
    With all due respect, this is my life. The only thing more important to me than sharing, making people happy, is my daughter, Dee.  
      Good luck to you & yours, sir!  Bob
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