Former UWF board member/?president? citied for alleged baiting violation updates thread

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Replies

  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,426 Officer

    I guess one could allege that a three day of half days in a hunt week, quotas, shell limits, no motors inside impounds, entry times, exit times, and hunter boundary/buffer zones OUTSIDE impounds weren't good enough for the very people that supported it, so they allegedly circumvented the law and created their own hot spot. Allegedly, it's a do as I'm saying, not what I'm doing, kinda thing...

  • ChetChet Posts: 263 Deckhand

    @Big Mak said:
    I guess one could allege that a three day of half days in a hunt week, quotas, shell limits, no motors inside impounds, entry times, exit times, and hunter boundary/buffer zones OUTSIDE impounds weren't good enough for the very people that supported it, so they allegedly circumvented the law and created their own hot spot. Allegedly, it's a do as I'm saying, not what I'm doing, kinda thing...

    Our one could say that those restrictions where put into place so some could hunt their private lease and have a nice peaceful bird filled sky with those others locked out.

  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,426 Officer

    @Chet said:
    Our one could say that those restrictions where put into place so some could hunt their private lease and have a nice peaceful bird filled sky with those others locked out.

    Allegedly so....

  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,426 Officer

    Certainly not rotten to the core. Just rotten at the top...

  • flydownflydown Posts: 6,450 Admiral

    Kinda hard not to throw stones when a stones throw is all one would need to kill ducks 10-15 yards from a feeder. Allegedly..

    DYING for me was the most HE could do. LIVING for HIM is the least I can do
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,799 Captain

    Obviously, this situation is an embarrassment to UW-F...and I might add these people also belonged to and are long time supporters of other conservation and hunting organizations....although there are the "few" UW-F detractors that are always joyful when ever they have a chance to bash the group....I am not going to make any hard recommendations until after the court case, but no one can serve as an officer or on the Board if they are convicted of such a charge. UW-F has five other Board Members and the work continues...and, the recent FWC Commission Meeting in Tallahassee, the Lake Okeechobee Aquatic Plant Management meeting with the agencies last night, had UW-F Members and officers on hand..."to make duck hunting in Florida better for Florida duck hunters"....Members and officers assisted or conducted Youth Hunts in Jacksonville, TMG and STA 1W last week....I am in the process of adding another Agenda Item to the SFWMD WRAC Recreation Meeting coming on March 13 for Aquatic Plant Management on Lake O...plus over 600,000 acres of duck hunting areas from Orlando to the Tamiami Trail. No organization made up of a large transection of people will escape the occasional "scandal"...UW-F is no different...but, UW-F will do what is right and move on....and THANKS TO ALL MEMBERS WHO CONSTANTLY SUPPORT UW-F, year after year....The only thing I ask of anyone here...:..Lets wait until the court has ruled...then it will be time to finalize any actions....we really should hold the "innocent until proven guilty" position despite the "evidence" we see on Face Book!

  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,426 Officer
    edited February 9 #38

    To me, this alleged incident is more about individuals and their hypocritical actions over the years, rather than uwf. Them being at the top of the Restrictionist Collective simply makes it worse and serves as affirmation that they are profoundly full of sheet; something that I've said from day one, 12 years ago. Just another example of some of the most selfish and influential people trying to secretly gain while publicly expounding the virtues of expanding restrictions on the rest of us. Pure horse manure!

    No doubt Uwf does some good work and If you put a true, more access, more habitat enhancement, less regulations man like Bubba or George at the helm, i bet there would be less scolding and more praise throughout.

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,203 Admiral

    @binellishtr said:
    if thats the case technically your feeders are illegal not running yr round

    yep.

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,799 Captain

    Being on the OPEN IT ALL UP ALL THE TIME side of the QUALITY/QUANTITY debate, which is never ending, I know the duck hunting community (and deer hunting community) has plenty on both sides of the issue....UW-F is no different. You might have noticed the UW-F Board does everything it can to stay away from the issue....good points on both sides....As I have said....do not take individual UW-F Members' (even mine) positions as UW-F positions....Not until (and unless) there is a Board Vote. Issues that are especially divisive among duck hunters are usually also represented on the Board....That is not a bad thing....everyone deserves a voice...

  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,152 Admiral

    When the Org positively says we will not support any further restrictions,and anyone who uses UW as a platform to pursue restrictions will be banned... you will get what u have coming Newt..plain n simple and such an ez fix?

  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 499 Deckhand

    @N. Cook said:
    Being on the OPEN IT ALL UP ALL THE TIME side of the QUALITY/QUANTITY debate, which is never ending, I know the duck hunting community (and deer hunting community) has plenty on both sides of the issue....UW-F is no different. You might have noticed the UW-F Board does everything it can to stay away from the issue....good points on both sides....As I have said....do not take individual UW-F Members' (even mine) positions as UW-F positions....Not until (and unless) there is a Board Vote. Issues that are especially divisive among duck hunters are usually also represented on the Board....That is not a bad thing....everyone deserves a voice...

    @binellishtr said:
    When the Org positively says we will not support any further restrictions,and anyone who uses UW as a platform to pursue restrictions will be banned... you will get what u have coming Newt..plain n simple and such an ez fix?

    I never thought I’d get there but I now have.

    Uwf needs to be disbanded and a new organization that only supports opening up more public access without restrictions needs to be created, imo.

    That sucks but who could ever again trust that some in the organization aren’t manipulating it to serve their individual needs through restrictions if the stated goals of the organization don’t exclusively work to open public access 24/7.

    The more I think about it the sicker I get. I mean this isn’t just some dude allegedly baiting this is top tier members of an organization that has had an ongoing battle over the year between many members who were pro hunter/public access and officers/board members who pushed for hunting restrictions. And now officers/board members are allegedly involved in these illegal activities which further benefited from public restrictions to hunting access.

    It’s insane.

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,225 AG

    @H20dad said:

    I never thought I’d get there but I now have.

    Uwf needs to be disbanded and a new organization that only supports opening up more public access without restrictions needs to be created, imo.

    This sounds like your golden opportunity...You need to be "the tip of the spear" You should be heading this up...You can be the President...ask Rich and Gene to serve with you.... :D

    But seriously.... I know this has tremenous potential....If only somebody will take the bull (shizzer) by the horns and run with this...

    I just love the thought of all the work that will be done... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 499 Deckhand

    @duckmanJR said:

    @H20dad said:

    I never thought I’d get there but I now have.

    Uwf needs to be disbanded and a new organization that only supports opening up more public access without restrictions needs to be created, imo.

    This sounds like your golden opportunity...You need to be "the tip of the spear" You should be heading this up...You can be the President...ask Rich and Gene to serve with you.... :D

    But seriously.... I know this has tremenous potential....If only somebody will take the bull (shizzer) by the horns and run with this...

    I just love the thought of all the work that will be done... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

    You know.

    I have been told you were one of the leading restrictionists in the organization......

  • Rich MRich M Posts: 638 Officer

    This should be interesting - it seems like a put-up or shut-up moment. If UWF could morph while keeping any relationships with the regulators it might work. Of course I'm assuming there are good relationships with the regulators - if not, then a new group coming in and establishing positive relationships would work. The whole thing could piggyback on a cry of outrage about unethical folks at the helm. The apparent silence isn't helping as all the publicity right now is negative. If the "publicists" do the right thing, it could bring in a bunch of new members - that face book site would be a start.

    BTW - when is the MINWR meeting???? I'll meet you all there but I'm not buying beers.

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,225 AG

    @H20dad said:

    @duckmanJR said:

    @H20dad said:

    I never thought I’d get there but I now have.

    Uwf needs to be disbanded and a new organization that only supports opening up more public access without restrictions needs to be created, imo.

    This sounds like your golden opportunity...You need to be "the tip of the spear" You should be heading this up...You can be the President...ask Rich and Gene to serve with you.... :D

    But seriously.... I know this has tremenous potential....If only somebody will take the bull (shizzer) by the horns and run with this...

    I just love the thought of all the work that will be done... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

    You know.

    I have been told you were one of the leading restrictionists in the organization......

    I know.... Could be true...not sure...but regardless...That's where YOU come in.....

    It's time to strike while the iron is hot!!! Your big chance.... let's not let this wither on the vine...lets have you pick up the baton and run with it.....

    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,426 Officer

    @binellishtr said:
    When the Org positively says we will not support any further restrictions,and anyone who uses UW as a platform to pursue restrictions will be banned... you will get what u have coming Newt..plain n simple and such an ez fix?

    This is my sentiment too. Every attempt at restricting should be met with skepticism and firm rebuttal. I don't think anyone here is delusional enough to believe we could win open access on the best public lands every single time, but to accept without question, or worse, ASK for more restrictions is nothing more than hunters helping hunting haters cast hunting into the dust bins of history.

  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,799 Captain

    Incidentally....."Bubba" is on the UW-F Board of Directors. George Kriminger is also on the UW-F Board of Directors, if that is who you mean by "George".....UW-F is a broad cross section of duck hunters...everyone has the right to their opinions...and need to be respected. What is apparent is that some people simply have no clue of the hard work it takes to get new hunting opened up...and to protect what hunting we have. Please form your own group and "have at it"....we need all the help we can get! Of course, these same UW-F detractors seem to miss the new hunting at Rolling Meadows, the addition of the Kissimmee Managed Area (after three years of meetings UW-F attended), the recent addition of the 16,000 acres FEB with 100 permits for three hunters per day....no check station...and, the STAs are a 15 year success record...just getting that first hunt 15 years or so ago took two years of work...dozens of meetings...lobbying local and state officials...Someone please name me one organization that has opened more land for duck hunting ( and for that matter deer and turkey!) in Florida...than UW-F....Incidentally, there is a fierce battle going on to get the Fellsmere Farms property open to public access and perhaps duck hunting going on today....thousands of acres of marsh east of the currently hunted Fellsmere SGHA...The next meeting where you can actually come and help get NEW HUNTING..H20Dad, Big Mak, Rich M....will be held by the SJRWMD on Feb. 22 at 6pm in Palm Bay at SJRWMD offices, 525 Community College Parkway...Unfortunately, I am out of the state that day, but you can bet Joe and other UW-F Members will be there to support duck hunting on the Fellsmere Farms extention marshes. Can we count on you...and H2ODad with his new group to be there??? Or, just like occurred at the CRUCIAL Lake O Aquatic Plant Management Meeting UW-F OFFICERS AND MEMBERS ATTENDED, while not a single one of the "complainers" on these forums made the sacrifice needed to attend......You are either in the game or in the peanut gallery....And..also, I might not agree with the Quality (restrictors) duck hunters (or deer hunters), but I respect their right to an opinion and will NOT ban them from UW-F, any more than DU or DELTA does.....Sorry, that simply is dividing hunters and not good for our future.

  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,799 Captain

    Incidentally, UW-F is back in another battle to prevent the loss of 3000 acres of public land and marsh in Jefferson Cty....Wards Creek...There is a post on this near this one...Please read the post and help us (and a lot of other groups who have been alerted) to stop this loss of land that has been open to the public since the late 1890's... UW-F Board Member, Stephen Williamson has posted the history of the last battle as well....Like the periodic attempts by large shoreline landowners to try to move the line designating State Waters "down toward the water" and "steal" tens of thousands of acres of public land, this one keeps popping up....we need all the hunters to help....I will never ever even see Wards Creek...it is at least seven hours drive...but, every piece of hunting public land must be fought for....Thanks for helping..the Post has info on how to respond...

  • Rich MRich M Posts: 638 Officer

    @N. Cook said:
    Incidentally....."The next meeting where you can actually come and help get NEW HUNTING..H20Dad, Big Mak, Rich M....will be held by the SJRWMD on Feb. 22 at 6pm in Palm Bay at SJRWMD offices, 525 Community College Parkway...

    Newton - don't lump me in with the "I need to hunt everywhere everyday" crowd. I'm in the quality over quantity group. Always have been. Honestly could care less about most stuff these guys are yammering about.

    You evidently misread my post - the "put up or shut up" part should have caught your eye. Its understandable with you being under attack all the time - I'm here in case of emergencies when you need articulated ideas and follow-thru.

    If you remember the good old days - we let the guys in the NE fight for the NE, the guys in central fight for central, the guys down south fight for down south, the org. provides numbers and credibility while communicating with the regulators and season makers. It works, and it works well cause folks are fighting for what matters to them. There will always be detractors.

    My sole concern with FL hunting these days is MINWR. You promised a meeting or two. When is it?

    The meeting is the follow thru for the MINWR fiasco - the face book guys need to be included, even tho they can't be controlled or expected to work for the greater good as opposed to their personal thoughts. Generals lead the battle but the troops aren't aware of it most of the time.

    Let's do this thing and get MINWR under control. There is no mutual respect - let's create some, or at least make the local leadership/biologists fear us.

  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,799 Captain

    MINWR remains high on the "list" for sure....and is very important for many duck hunters. The fact that the Federal Agency completely reversed an "in place" regulation after our complaint was extraordinary and I have recently spoken to the BIG BOSS in Atlanta who made the final decision.....nice guy and very gracious about the "mistake"....and very appreciative of our care not to demonize or criticize the local staff despite our complaint.....We have the two "bosses" on our side...I do not use names here as we need to continue to take care with our approach...and there definitely will be a MINWR STAKEHOLDER MEETING FOR WATERFOWLING this spring. With the higher interest among hunters, I expect more than one or two hunters will show up at the routine post hunt meeting (like last year) and a good discussion will be possible on all subjects....not only the rules, but also on how the habitat can be improved....As soon as I get a date, I will give plenty of notice,...As you can expect, getting all the cats in the same bag will take a few weeks....Incidentally, the best way to make sure nothing positive happens is to have the "local leadership/biologist fear us"....Never works when dealing with a government agency....What few people know is how a very small and seemingly unimportant "little bureaucrat" way down the chain of command can KILL YOU.....Unfortunately, the power does not rest with the stakeholders....whether that is obvious or not....We can bring the staff along, even if they disagree with our points, but it requires finesse.....I know we put the hammer on them with the unexpected change in the rules, but that was a "one strike" swing where we just happen to hit the ball....not the way for the long term cooperation on projects to improve the habitat at MINWR and hunting programs...which are expanding to other game. We may never get enthusiastic support for the hunting program on MINWR, but we can get respect and reasonable cooperation....and if we keep a lot of emphasis on "habitat", perhaps some enthusiastic support on that topic....

  • godvlmangodvlman Posts: 229 Deckhand

    Something tells me the MINWR meeting will be "after the fact" ... decisions made, rules changed, brochures sent for print, and then a meeting date will be set just to allow users to "vent"... with the answers being "we will look into it" or "maybe next year"...

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,225 AG

    @godvlman said:
    Something tells me the MINWR meeting will be "after the fact" ... decisions made, rules changed, brochures sent for print, and then a meeting date will be set just to allow users to "vent"... with the answers being "we will look into it" or "maybe next year"...

    Well John...You could always champion the cause... As in every battle ever fought...SOMEBODY has to be the tip of the spear. Just being a naysayer just gets you lumped into a certain category with the decision makers. I have already heard names named...I usually just smile. ;)

    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Rich MRich M Posts: 638 Officer
    edited February 12 #54

    @N. Cook said:
    MINWR remains high on the "list" for sure....and is very important for many duck hunters. I know we put the hammer on them with the unexpected change in the rules, but that was a "one strike" swing where we just happen to hit the ball....not the way for the long term cooperation on projects to improve the habitat at MINWR and hunting programs...which are expanding to other game. We may never get enthusiastic support for the hunting program on MINWR, but we can get respect and reasonable cooperation....and if we keep a lot of emphasis on "habitat", perhaps some enthusiastic support on that topic....

    One of the reasons I mentioned that the general leads the troops - The initial target date for the meeting was February - that's why I'm asking everyone.

    We won't get the support of the biologists - never had it from Dorn onward. The big boss is the only reason anything happened and why things need to be followed-up with him and such. If they won't respect the hunters, they need to fear the retribution from their boss when the hunters go climbing the vine again. Is that a better way to put it?

    Newton - what do we need to do to get the top guy to call the meeting?

    g-man - that is another reason I'm asking. The meeting has to be held before they make the plans for next Season.

  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,152 Admiral

    That woman in charge at MINWR should have been fired..

  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,799 Captain

    John, that is what happened last year....don't see that happening this time around....We have plenty of time to hold the meeting....I would expect sometime in April...and, again....the Staff is well aware of the need to be accommodating to the hunters with the scheduling....

  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,152 Admiral

    out of sight out of mind, that meeting should have happened the weekend after the storm hit.. BOHICA

  • godvlmangodvlman Posts: 229 Deckhand

    @duckmanJR said:

    @godvlman said:
    Something tells me the MINWR meeting will be "after the fact" ... decisions made, rules changed, brochures sent for print, and then a meeting date will be set just to allow users to "vent"... with the answers being "we will look into it" or "maybe next year"...

    Well John...You could always champion the cause... As in every battle ever fought...SOMEBODY has to be the tip of the spear. Just being a naysayer just gets you lumped into a certain category with the decision makers. I have already heard names named...I usually just smile. ;)

    Your right JR, I could... I already did my due diligence, and that is not a cause I want to champion at this point in time. Too many other causes on the back burner that need to be championed!!

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,225 AG

    Of course *YOU COULD *....

    My point was...why be the naysayer.... Either be a leader...or let others tote the water...without the background noise....You know what I am saying John....you are not "that guy"...

    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 3,525 Captain

    @duckmanJR said:

    @H20dad said:

    I never thought I’d get there but I now have.

    Uwf needs to be disbanded and a new organization that only supports opening up more public access without restrictions needs to be created, imo.

    This sounds like your golden opportunity...You need to be "the tip of the spear" You should be heading this up...You can be the President...ask Rich and Gene to serve with you.... :D

    But seriously.... I know this has tremenous potential....If only somebody will take the bull (shizzer) by the horns and run with this...

    I just love the thought of all the work that will be done... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

    Good one JR, we know where that will go, no further than a public forum, where only the almighty can rein.

    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • Rich MRich M Posts: 638 Officer

    @N. Cook said:
    I would expect sometime in April...and, again....the Staff is well aware of the need to be accommodating to the hunters with the scheduling....

    Newton - the staff has NEVER shown any inclination towards the hunters. Why would they start now? Should we list the changes? It culminated in the shenanigans of last year - and how those would have hurt. Every couple of years they tighten the noose, turn up the heat, whatever.

    Are we certain it will be April? I will gladly run this one for you.

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