Discharges

This is the worst smelling discharge into the Saint Lucie River I have ever experienced. I live on the river and it smells like a septic tank that has just been opened during the hotter part of the days. I can not go outside because I get sick.
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Replies

  • drgibbydrgibby Posts: 1,176 Officer
    I live in Largo. With the power out the lift station on McKay creek, which is brand new but has no generator, dumped raw sewage into the creek for 2 or 3 days.
    They were nice enough to come around and post signs stating that the water was contaminated, so don`t swim with your mouth open..........
  • Renagade69Renagade69 Posts: 1,213 Officer
    Well I walked to my dock and barely could walk back from being sick. It is very bad here.
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 646 Officer
    Same crap, different year... Some things never change. So disappointing.
  • bmoodybmoody Posts: 855 Officer
    Mostly basin flow. Fish kill in C-24 (North Fork). Enormous BOD.
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    If everyone would quit pooping, we wouldn't have to deal with this crap!
  • mplspugmplspug Lake Mary, FloridaPosts: 5,707 Admiral
    I don't live by any discharge areas, but the **** air is dank! Smells like sulfur mixed in with a little rot.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 646 Officer
    If everyone would quit pooping, we wouldn't have to deal with this crap!


    If we would allow the water to flow south over the AG fields we wouldn't have to deal with this crap. Instead, they are back pumping their crap filled field water back which is then being sent in every direction except where it should be sent, which is south. Here we go again.. Remember last year when everyone who was against the send it south memo said that back pumping never happened and all this pollution was from us and to the north. WRONG.....
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    If we would allow the water to flow south over the AG fields we wouldn't have to deal with this crap. Instead, they are back pumping their crap filled field water back which is then being sent in every direction except where it should be sent, which is south. Here we go again.. Remember last year when everyone who was against the send it south memo said that back pumping never happened and all this pollution was from us and to the north. WRONG.....

    Back pumping is rarely if ever done! Its just not the problem, The problem is from N of the lake. Most Ag water goes thru thousands of acres of treatment cells and is actually very clean!
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 646 Officer
    Back pumping is happening right now or at least was a few days ago, so I wouldn't say "rarely done" it happened last year and happened again this year. Safe to say it will probably happen again next year... I agree that it is not the sole problem, but it is certainly apart of the problem. There is no denying that. The AG fields south of the lake are also in the way of a potential solution to restore the flow south just like mother nature intended it to go, before political interests and big AG got involved to divert the water off and around their precious fields. Fields that grow sugar cane subsidized by our tax dollars producing sugar that is more expensive than we could import it in for. Really makes zero logical sense.

    If you are not apart of the solution, you are apart of the problem. AG falls in that category.
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 646 Officer
    Agreed to disagree..

    If the issue was truly stemming from septic tanks, then why don't we experience these issues year round? We use the bathroom year round and if they are leaking they would leak year round? Yet we only seem to have issues with high bacteria alerts and algae blooms like last year during time of high discharges? Is that an annual coincidence? I think not.

    Leaking septic tanks from Sewalls Point, do NOT make it into any canal to feed back into the lake. So how are they the cause of the problem?

    The blue/green algae was documented months ago when it was forming in the middle of lake O when it was seen covering miles of the lakes surface. At the same time there was NO documentation of it locally to the east at all.. I'm not saying it originated in the lake, but certainly when we send the water east and west, the lake is helping to distribute it to us.

    Anyway you want to spin it, discharges from the lake in a different direction than it was originally "long before man messed up the natural flow" intended are not good. Regardless if it brings the algae or bacteria or if it just allows the salinity to be reduced enough to allow the algae to grow. We need to quit messing with mother natures intentions and allow the water to flow south once again just like it was intended to do. This is like moving sand back onto the beaches, paying millions of dollars to do so, then once the next storm comes by it just moves it to where it was originally going anyways.

    Florida Bay is starving for freshwater and sea grass was dying there due to hyper salinity since we cut off their flow of freshwater in order to keep the AG fields dry. It is all tied together and you can't argue that.

    The article you reference is listed in the local Okeechobee news in the OPINIONs section. It is coming from Okeechobee, you think they might be a little one sided? Aside from UF, I wouldn't trust those other "sources" of information as far as I could throw them. They have been totally discredited as they are deeply connected to political parties who are deeply influenced by contribution by big AG. They are not pure and neither is their research. Hell Rubio's entire campaign started with that, let's not even get started on Mr. Scott. Corruption at it's best.
  • MonkeyBox SliderMonkeyBox Slider Posts: 6 Greenhorn
    Agreed, mostly, and very valid points.

    I have no degree on the matter, and can only voice what I have seen. Algae blooms happen year after year in various degrees. I believe last years abundance, was more from a wetter and warmer winter, than years past. More so a result from climate than "big sugar". Yes, mankind has altered nature drastically for the sake of money, politics, and greed. Farming also has played a major role in sculpting the water management process. No doubt that the lake distributed the algae to coastal areas also. However, big sugar didn't contribute to major algae blooms in New York and California last year either. The fact that water leaving the lake has tested cleaner, than the water in charlotte harbor points to a few things also.

    All in all, hopefully the water will clean up for you guys soon, and we can get back to enjoying the awesome fisheries this great state has to offer.
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    The source of pollutants is partially septic tanks and it take high water levels and/or rain to let that source be a problem. But, it is mainly coming down the Kissimmee River system from Northern areas, being Orlando for human waste, and all the dairy and cattle farms for other waste.

    Its just not a Big Sugar problem anymore, the STA's take care of that source and we rarely backpump.
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 646 Officer
    The source of pollutants is partially septic tanks and it take high water levels and/or rain to let that source be a problem. But, it is mainly coming down the Kissimmee River system from Northern areas, being Orlando for human waste, and all the dairy and cattle farms for other waste.

    Its just not a Big Sugar problem anymore, the STA's take care of that source and we rarely backpump.

    The way I see it, it's not rare at all. It happening annually to the tune of billions upon billions of gallons of polluted AG field water being back pumped into the lake to then be sent east and west instead of south like it should flow naturally.

    http://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/indian-river-lagoon/health/2017/09/15/south-florida-water-management-district-pumping-water-into-lake-o-glades-communities/669282001/

    "The pumps, he said, were "being used to protect the families and businesses there and will continue until the threat to human safety does not exist."

    Protecting families is essential. But to the extent the back-pumping was protecting businesses — namely, the vast sugar fields and agricultural interests south of the lake — we wonder how those interests could be deemed important enough to put more water into a lake already so full it required damaging discharges to both coasts."

    So let me get this straight. We release lake water east and west "because we cannot send it south like it should go" to lower the lake water levels to prevent the dike from failing. However, we back pump adding more water to the lake thus helping to raise the water levels in the lake to keep the AG fields dry south of the lake thus having to send even more water east and west??? :huh

    FACTS:
    January 2016- Back pumped 3 BILLION GALLONS into the lake from the south.
    June 2017- Back pumped 5.7 BILLION GALLONS into the lake from the south.
    September 2017- Back pumped 3.7 BILLION GALLONS into the lake from the south.

    No one is saying it's "just a big sugar problem" but to sit there an constantly deny...
    1. Back pumping happens and it's way more often than "rarely"
    2. Big Sugar is certainly a problem, not the sole problem but a problem none the less and also a giant hurdle to overcome on the way to a real solution "I.E. Sending it back south like it should naturally go..."

    So long as Big Sugar is in the way of a real solution, they will ALWAYS be apart of the problem IMO.
  • sonofagunnsonofagunn Posts: 65 Greenhorn

    I'm no expert on the subject, but I can see a few problems with these statistics right off the bat.

    The green one: There is no comparison with the occurrence rate, severity, or size of blooms made. Everyone knows there have been algae blooms in the past. What is this telling us? Nothing.

    The brown one: It may be true that 70%-80% of the nutrients are local, but is that for the whole year? That would mean ~25% of the pollution in the river comes from Lake O in the span of a few weeks every couple of years. During these releases, the pollution would have to be at extreme levels and almost entirely from Lake O to add up to 25% for the year. I think this just confirms what people are complaining about.

    The blue one: Fine. The people on the coasts don't really care if it was from back pumping or Orlando. They want it sent south into the Everglades and Florida Bay where freshwater is lacking and where there are wetlands that would clean the water. I'm not sure this statistic really matters.
  • MonkeyBox SliderMonkeyBox Slider Posts: 6 Greenhorn
    My problem with the subject has always been with terms like, polluted lake o water, or disgusting lake o discharges. I hear it all the time on the news. The lake is not polluted, or disgusting in any way. I've lived here on its shores for my entire life..which is only 30 something years, but I have seen many changes in my short time here. I've seen fields of lilly pads change to brush and hydrilla, then back to fields of pads. I've seen murky water and a dead plant matter covered bottom, to crystal clear water and natural, sandy bottom. The lake, before the storm, has been getting healthier and more productive every year in the past 10 years.

    My non-professional solution would be to control the releases at a reasonable rate. I don't understand the logic behind the massive releases followed by no releases, only to blast it again two weeks later. That just stirs everything up. Why not open the gates only slightly, for longer periods of time? The lake and rivers would not get stirred up as much, then flushed out to the coastal areas. I grew up fishing spillways and depended on moving water to keep my snook season's eventful. The steady 1-2 ft. gate heights were ideal for water clarity and happy fish. No one in the coast complained either. Having the gates open at 5+ ft. creates a current miles out into the lake and anything not rooted gets sucked out. Then the river fishing is tough because of all the vegetation floating down stream and brown water shows up on beaches.

    I went through lake harbor this weekend and was shocked nothing was being released into the Miami canal. Meanwhile I can't fish some spots in the caloosa because the gates are all at 6ft. and the white water rapids aren't my favorite place to try and present a bait.
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,219 Admiral
    before Irma
    Corps to release water from Lake Okeechobee in advance of Hurricane Irma
    http://www.wptv.com/news/region-okeechobee-county/corps-to-release-water-from-lake-okeechobee-in-advance-of-hurricane-irma

    after Irma
    Hurricane Irma update: Army Corps releases more water from Lake Okeechobee
    Army Corps of Engineers announced plans to release anywhere from 2,000 to 4,000 cubic feet per second at the Franklin Lock starting Tuesday.

    The estuary is harmed when levels reach 2,800 cubic feet per second or above. Water quality scientists say as much as 27,000 cubic feet (about 300 million gallons a day) ran down the river in the wake of Irma.

    http://www.news-press.com/story/news/2017/09/19/army-corps-releasing-more-water-lake-okeechobee/680503001/
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,219 Admiral

    So they release water from the lake in overflow basins C23 and C24 where somehow the overflow basins pick up phosphorous? And SFWMD blames the problem on the river, canal and basins. They ignore all the Ag runoff coming from the Kissimmee river basin. Hogwash and BS, literally and figuratively.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 2,757 Captain
    Two things to remember about water quality issues up that way - the first and primary is that the natural waters here are (were) almost nutrient free... that's what formed and sustained the Everglades to the south. Interrupt that flow of water or add nutrients, even in small amounts... causes lots of problems downstream (and no or very little water coming south is just as big a problem in season -when it's supposed to flow that way...). Over the years the amount of added nutrients from all sources (but mainly agriculture) has grown and grown. It's very cleanable if you set up marshes designed to remove the additional nutrients - but that will take land, and money to establish them. Where it's been tried -it's worked - and these days more and more agricultural interests have been cleaning up their discharges to the point where they're not loaded with nutrients at all.... so we do have some good prospects in that arena...

    Secondly, when the Corps releases water from the big lake it's only about safety -nothing else (unless we're somehow able to keep their feet in the fire...). Way back in the 1920's a terrible flood event occurred during a hurricane -and it killed hundreds and hundreds of folks south of Lake Okeechobee. That's why the current dike was built ten years later - and it's been there ever since... Whenever they believe the water level in the lake might possibly threaten that dike they'll discharge waters - and get it done as quickly as possible (remember their focus is the dike - not the water quality..).

    As I've said before - we don't have any problems - we didn't create ourselves... and fixing this mess will take a ton of money (and years of effort...) but it is do-able....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    A few comments for the recent posts.
    1. Backpumping. Not a normal process with any real quantity, however when they backpump, in many cases the water is cleaner than that coming in the lake from the North.
    2. The EAA reservoir. If we had it now, we would still be discharging into both East and West discharge points. The EAA would have only stopped about 10% of the discharge with all the water we got from Irma.
    3. Moving water South. Can't do it now, everything is full to the brim from the conservation areas to Everglades National Park.

    Fact: The north plan to store water North of the lake is faster, cheaper, and more efficient at keeping our water clean than any reservoir to the South.

    Oh, but I don't know anything about it, I only Built phase 1 of STA 1W, Southern end of STA2, The Periphiton STA demo project, Parts of STA 3/4, Pump stations 335, 370, 372, STA 5 Discharge canal and bridge, etc etc etc.........With that kind of investment in this work, I pay attention to every single aspect of what is going on in the Everglades water issues.

    Heck, when the FS gods started that thread to propose a new reservoir, I told them it would not happen and the only option was the old EAA site. After great argument by others, what happened???? The old EAA site!

    You can be passionate about the issue, but it is very complicated to understand all the constraints on any plan you choose.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 733 Officer
    The reasons sending water south or building storage areas south of the lake would not work were put forth in a piece in the Treasure Coast Palm newspaper this AM....written by Mike Hutchcraft , a former SFWMD board member .....Tonight it was replaced by a story about how well those reservoirs would help......... ???
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    The reasons sending water south or building storage areas south of the lake would not work were put forth in a piece in the Treasure Coast Palm newspaper this AM....written by Mike Hutchcraft , a former SFWMD board member .....Tonight it was replaced by a story about how well those reservoirs would help......... ???

    I saw both articles, they both can't be right!
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,710 Captain
    I saw both articles, they both can't be right!
    I think the first article was in regards to just the EAA reservoir alone and was in regards to discharges. The second was in reference to all reservoirs NESW being online and again in regards to discharges.
    I could be wrong though.
    Tried to look for the articles again, but could not find. Maybe if you could post the link would be great.

    We know the EAA reservoir is not the silver bullet. But it is part of cerp and the faster it comes online in conjunction with the finishing of mod waters, the greater possibility for moving water south is created, as well as helping to curb destructive discharges east and west along with all the other projects.

    The current system is what prevents water from going south. Restoration is the key.
    Quote from Shannon Estenoz. The Director of Everglades Restoration Initiatives for the DOI.
    1:29 of Meeting.
    https://www.facebook.com/SFWMD/posts/1222980031179746
    http://sfwmd.iqm2.com/Citizens/SplitView.aspx?Mode=Video&MeetingID=1804&Format=None
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • cabopccabopc Posts: 2 Greenhorn
    I live in Fort Myers and the water in our river (the Caloosahatchee) is the worst I've ever seen it. Check out the color of the water in my livewell.
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    Juno pier yesterday was horrible.. politics have been burning money and time. When will this get fixed...??? how can we fix it now?? so many questions with so little time.
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,710 Captain
    cabopc wrote: »
    I live in Fort Myers and the water in our river (the Caloosahatchee) is the worst I've ever seen it. Check out the color of the water in my livewell.
    Makes it hard to pick out the better sized baits. Lol. That is pretty dark. ****.
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    Crystal bay last week..

    Big Sugar will prolly be blamed by the snowflakes..:rotflmao
    017.jpg 97.8K
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,710 Captain
    :hairraiser. Shocking.
    Doesn’t look like it’s snowing up there. :shrug
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    Anumber1.. why do you not think that a good portion of this will not be the product of big sugar?
    are you one of those guys who are paid to go against other peoples posts?
    I ask because everything that someone brings up you have an answer for at 7,900+ posts and if you read them they are usually stirring the pot.
    maybe that's just another reason this site is not even going anywhere??? maybe it has nothing to do with cold weather maybe a mirror is what you need..?
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    millions of dollars and many hours people waste on fighting over what is right... think about it. what's left to save?
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