Why aren't catch shares just auctioned at the start of each season?

TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,298 Admiral
Catch shares have some distinct advantages. They also have some distinct disadvantages.

It seems to me that most of the disadvantages are centered around implementation. Specifically, how they are allocated in the commercial sector.

Instead of granting them in perpetuity, why not simply open them to public auction at the beginning of the year every year?

Someone please tell me why that wouldn't solve most of the problems of commercial catch shares while keeping in place their advantages.

After all, it's very similar to how we handle other public resources, be it trees or airwaves.

Although it most certainly would result in an interesting discussion, I'm not talking of the recreational sector nor the crap going on with charter boats....just commercial.

Thanks....Mike
«13

Replies

  • drgibbydrgibby Posts: 1,176 Officer
    Sounds like an interesting concept. Fair and equitable to all participants except perhaps the sea lords with the lion`s share. So what.
    Gonna sit back and wait for the pro comm crowd to chime in.
  • aboveboredabovebored Posts: 1,225 Officer
    First of all, a commercial fisherman needs to have a Federal Gulf Reef fishing permit with a vessel monitoring system in place before they are even eligible to use catch shares. Last I checked there were no Gulf Reef Permits available for sale. Then the commercial fisherman can lease catch shares from one of a few sealords, if they don't actually have them granted to them. So the money would either end up in the sealords pockets or the govts. Not much difference to the fisherman without granted shares.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    Tarponator,
    Actually is a great question - why aren't they auctioned off each year? Or, at the very least require that they lease their % of allocation directly from the government at say, $1 to $1.50/pound - they can still their % of allocation fish year-round, they should be paying for the privilege. This could create a revenue stream to the tune of 10's of millions of dollars per year that COULD be dedicated to our fisheries.

    We could throttle back the commercial IFQ allocation to 2006 levels - 4.65 million pounds. Take the rest of the commercial quota and open it up to true auction or lottery to provide avenue to bring in new entrants into the commercial fishing industry. Right now, they are locked out.

    Another thing would be to prohibit leasing of OUR fish (and these OUR fish by they way) to other commercial fishermen. NOBODY should have the right to collect our nation's resource royalties and pocket 100% of the proceeds as is happening now when the Sea Lords lease their allocation to other commercial fishermen.

    Lastly, commercial is commercial and recreational is recreational. Prohibit this loophole where commercial captains are taking recreational fishermen on "charters that can't be called a charter".

    ALL of these things are causing the havoc that we are experiencing in our recreational fisheries right now - the push to privatize our fish needs to be eliminated.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    we can throttle back the rec share too..
    3 days to 1 day.. lol
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    'WE' ??? Whos' WE ???
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    'WE' ??? Whos' WE ???
    Axe Capt Tom Hilton.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • TrippleTailIVTrippleTailIV Posts: 197 Officer
    Can't the Council make plan amendments to the IFQ? While from a business perspective, it makes complete sense to have a 'right' to perpetuity. Especially if that right keeps increasing each year.

    Yet, at this point the IFQ seems to select against new entrants unless they have enough seed money to purchase shares. My guess is most new entrants don't have that type of cash laying around.

    I am loathe to take away the percentages or shares the existing fishermen have, but the idea of rolling back quota to a specific level and using the difference to allow for new entrants, that's an interesting idea. I have a hard time seeing industry supporting this, but still interesting way of getting new blood into the fishery.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    Exactly - how much quota would it take to make a living? I would say $20,000 pounds would be a reasonable amount. I think the going rate for purchasing quota is $35 to $40/pound. That's $700,000 to $800,000 - not many if any new entrants could afford that. I think there are many many commercial fishermen who need to lease their fish - hard to make ends meet paying $3.00-$3.25/pound to a Sea Lord when the wholesale price at the dock is $4.75/pound.

    I'm not suggesting to take away their %'s - keep their existing %'s and apply them to the 4.65 million pounds - they have access to the access that their % promises, but they need to pay for the privilege. If ALL commercial fishermen paid the same $1.00 to $1.50/pound, it would level the playing field, make it easier to make a living, and provide an avenue for new entrants. It would also eliminate the scam of collecting our nation's royalties for their personal profit while neither the nation nor the fisheries receives a dime.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,298 Admiral
    Thanks for the posts guys.

    I didn't think too deeply about the limited entry nature of the fishery when I was working through this -- another area I'm not too fond of to be honest -- and perhaps I should have.

    But, on the other hand, granting rights in perpetuity for a renewable resource turns my free market stomach and this seemed like an easy fix proven fair and effective in other parts of public policy with similar concerns....and wondered what others thought of it.

    Thanks again...Mike
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    If I tried to rig a public bid like the comms did to the ARS quota, I would go to jail!
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 3,647 Captain
    It blows my mind that they can be bought, sold or leased in the first place, once allocated it is yours to use, if you don't want it, it should be retuned to the pool to be reallocated. no one should be able to sell or lease their allocation. It was a free gift handed to them on a silver platter and they get to gold plate it.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    surfman wrote: »
    It blows my mind that they can be bought, sold or leased in the first place, once allocated it is yours to use, if you don't want it, it should be retuned to the pool to be reallocated. no one should be able to sell or lease their allocation. It was a free gift handed to them on a silver platter and they get to gold plate it.
    free? lol
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    If I tried to rig a public bid like the comms did to the ARS quota, I would go to jail!
    So how did they? spell it out.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,425 Captain
    GREAT! Those sitting behind the desk can make even more $$$ by SELLING us shares to catch our own fish!!!
  • Ron@.38 SpecialRon@.38 Special Posts: 6,702 Admiral
    Certainly one of the most ridiculous things the US has ever done with a public resource.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    free? lol

    Yes, FREE.

    These same shares given away for FREE to the initial IFQ shareholders are worth about $1/4 BILLION today.

    It's felony theft of our Public Trust Resources.

    Not only were these IFQs given away for FREE, they are exempted from paying royalties to the nation for the privilege - ripping off American taxpayers to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars since 2006.

    These IFQ Sea Lords are allowed to lease "their" shares to other commercial fishermen for $3.00 to $400 per pound. In effect, not only is this industry exempted from paying royalties, the system has been hijacked so that THEY COLLECT OUR ROYALTIES and pocket 100% of the proceeds.

    It's time for the Trump administration to put an end to this scam.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Yes, FREE.

    These same shares given away for FREE to the initial IFQ shareholders are worth about $1/4 BILLION today.

    It's felony theft of our Public Trust Resources.

    Not only were these IFQs given away for FREE, they are exempted from paying royalties to the nation for the privilege - ripping off American taxpayers to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars since 2006.

    These IFQ Sea Lords are allowed to lease "their" shares to other commercial fishermen for $3.00 to $400 per pound. In effect, not only is this industry exempted from paying royalties, the system has been hijacked so that THEY COLLECT OUR ROYALTIES and pocket 100% of the proceeds.

    It's time for the Trump administration to put an end to this scam.
    $400/lb???

    Nice to see you Texas guys give a big FU to the rest of the states... We'll remember that in the shake out tom.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Yes, FREE.

    These same shares given away for FREE to the initial IFQ shareholders are worth about $1/4 BILLION today.

    It's felony theft of our Public Trust Resources.

    Not only were these IFQs given away for FREE, they are exempted from paying royalties to the nation for the privilege - ripping off American taxpayers to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars since 2006.

    These IFQ Sea Lords are allowed to lease "their" shares to other commercial fishermen for $3.00 to $400 per pound. In effect, not only is this industry exempted from paying royalties, the system has been hijacked so that THEY COLLECT OUR ROYALTIES and pocket 100% of the proceeds.
    It's time for the Trump administration to put an end to this scam.
    BTW, blood, sweat, and tears to get to that point.
    10 day derby's, eff the weather.. They paid their dues..

    Please keep politics out of this tommy..
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,237 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »

    Please keep politics out of this tommy..

    :funnypost .....................................coming from a "lobbyist"

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    BTW, blood, sweat, and tears to get to that point.
    10 day derby's, eff the weather.. They paid their dues..

    Please keep politics out of this tommy..

    Ridiculous entitlement mentality - the American People owe nothing to the commercial IFQ shareholders, and they certainly do not deserve ownership of our Public Trust Resources nor do they deserve to be exempted from paying royalties to the nation.
  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    still all the guys who say they 'know it all' have done nothing with all the information that is at hand..
    they act like dictators on here jumping on anyone who posts something to try to make it better to the guys who are just fed up with the bs...
    just another day at the forum office for some.. if you were judged by what you got accomplished your report cards would not look good and the bottom would say "bullies others for their opinions"... just saying the truth.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    still all the guys who say they 'know it all' have done nothing with all the information that is at hand..
    they act like dictators on here jumping on anyone who posts something to try to make it better to the guys who are just fed up with the bs...
    just another day at the forum office for some.. if you were judged by what you got accomplished your report cards would not look good and the bottom would say "bullies others for their opinions"... just saying the truth.

    We are attempting to do something; http://www.Freedom2Fish.org

    We met with Congressional leaders and have had some impact; support for HR2023 and possibly with our new 39 day season that our Gulf Congressmen hammered out directly with the Secretary of Commerce, going over the heads of the corrupt NMFS/EDF/Gulf Council.

    The recreational fishermen are beginning to be heard, and we will be raising funds across the Gulf to really begin affecting change in the near future.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,237 Officer
    if you were judged by what you got accomplished your report cards would not look good and the bottom would say "bullies others for their opinions"... just saying the truth.

    I suggest you do some investigative work.................take the Gulf and south Atlantic councils........research the last 10 amendments pertaining to bottom fishing for each............go to the federal register and read the "public comment and input" recorded for each amendment..........then go see how the councils actually voted.

    Then report back and tell us who you think is guilty of "bullies others for their opinions".

    just saying the truth :wink

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • testerman28testerman28 Posts: 1,329 Officer
    how many years have both of you (and others ) been at this fight for the American Red Snapper and the American Public?

    someones making money.. not much done but craziness .. grey areas are never going to be a decision.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,551 Captain
    Testerman - if you were judged by what you got accomplished your report card would not look good and the bottom would say "bullies others for their opinions"... just saying the truth.

    What have YOU accomplished? Aren't you bullying someone for their opinion? Aren't you being a bit hypocritical here?
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    Tom, how many days did Texas give up to help the rec fishermen here in the eastern gulf?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 4,051 Moderator
    Looks like 42 days. 4 days a week for 11 weeks, minus 2 days for July 3-4
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,237 Officer
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    It's felony theft of our Public Trust Resources.
    It's time for the Trump administration to put an end to this scam.

    I doubt that will happen.........not with the 1%er Wilbur Ross just announcing who he is giving the helm of the ship to. Unless you want Gulf Fishery managed like Alaska.


    Chris Oliver named assistant administrator for NOAA Fisheries

    Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross, with concurrence from the White House, selected Chris Oliver as assistant administrator for NOAA Fisheries. Oliver assumes his new position this week.

    As assistant administrator, Oliver will oversee the federal agency responsible for recreational and commercial fisheries that contribute more than $200 billion to the nation's economy and support nearly two million jobs. In addition to managing productive and sustainable domestic fisheries, including some aspects of marine aquaculture, the agency works to recover and conserve protected resources such as whales, sea turtles, and corals.

    “Oliver’s background and expertise will be an asset at NOAA Fisheries as they work to reduce our nation’s $11 billion dollar seafood trade deficit,” said Ross.

    NOAA Fisheries has offices in 15 states and U.S. territories, including five regional offices, six science centers, and 24 labs and fish stations.

    For the past 27 years, Oliver worked at the North Pacific Fishery Management Council--first as a fisheries biologist, later as deputy director, and finally as executive director for 16 years. Through his long-time participation in the Council Coordination Committee and various international fishery management organizations, Oliver gained extensive knowledge of national and international fisheries issues. A Texas native, Oliver also worked on Gulf of Mexico shrimp fishery management issues prior to moving to Alaska in 1990.

    “Chris is a fisherman himself and has rich experience in fisheries leadership positions around the country and internationally,” said Ben Friedman, acting NOAA administrator. “He’s a natural fit for this position and we look forward to working with him.”

    “I’m honored to take the helm at an agency that focuses on the scientific underpinning and management mission of our nation’s thriving fisheries," said Oliver. "I intend to focus many of our resources on that core science and management mission, and seek opportunities for efficiencies in our fisheries regulatory processes. We will continue to make long-term sustainability the top priority, while looking for ways to maximize fishing opportunities for the benefit of recreational and commercial fishermen, processors, coastal communities, and the economies which depend upon them."

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 9,298 Admiral
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    It's time for the Trump administration to put an end to this scam.

    Tom, You're right, it is time. However, and without devolving into a political conversation, you think the current administration will make things better? Look who they chose to head the NOAA: Chris Oliver.

    http://www.savingseafood.org/news/washington/americas-fishing-industry-unites-support-chris-oliver-noaa-fisheries/

    What does that tell you?
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,274 Admiral
    scam? the new rec season with the potential to harvest 250,000 lbs per day...

    Unless the MS act is thrown out therse won't be another federal rec season for 5 +years.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
«13

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file