regional management

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Replies

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,455 Admiral
    Got TA Go wrote: »
    Oh... And if you are going to use a website I am affiliated with (Easy Rider), don't forget my other affiliated website:

    http://gottagofishinginkeywest.com/

    Thanks for the plug! :USA
    Just curious, does the 4.5% extra charge for CC transactions reflect CC company charges or cover your mark for all the non reported cash only deals? Seems to me that charters are a good business for hiding income.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Just my .02... Rob, you be getting a little texan too.

    Art... You know that I've missed our interactions. I always looked forward to all of them.

    Gary... Not so much. His cup seems to be pretty full of himself... no room for actual data that I think even you and I can agree on. He's busy with his FGA and BTT issues to worry about killers like us, unless he and his people want privileged access to waters.

    So, I don't miss him.

    You Sir, I do miss. And I would host you on my boat to fish and poke fun at everyone that we could. :beer

    I might dedicate time to be here just for you.

    In a very public and positive way that is.

    Get your mind out of the gutter.

    We might both get banned! LOL

    Rob
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,455 Admiral
    Got TA Go wrote: »
    Art... You know that I've missed our interactions. I always looked forward to all of them.

    Gary... Not so much. His cup seems to be pretty full of himself... no room for actual data that I think even you and I can agree on. He's busy with his FGA and BTT issues to worry about killers like us, unless he and his people want privileged access to waters.

    So, I don't miss him.

    You Sir, I do miss. And I would host you on my boat to fish and poke fun at everyone that we could. :beer

    I might dedicate time to be here just for you.

    In a very public and positive way that is.

    Get your mind out of the gutter.

    We might both get banned! LOL

    Rob
    Sorry for the low blow Rob, I'd have a drink or coffee with you any time.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Sorry for the low blow Rob, I'd have a drink or coffee with you any time.

    If you are drinking Sir, I'm buying.

    Set 'em Up my Friend.

    :beer
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,572 Captain
    :grin

    I am always willing to listen to those who present an opposing views.

    I am not willing to shut down that conversation or am willing to threaten them with censorship, which we have seen here.

    Threatening people as a representative of FS flies in the face of that philosophy and is indefensible.

    This is not ConFron or as I say confrontational. It is bullying.

    It's long past time we let people of both sides express their frustrations in this controversy and not advance an agenda under the flag as a FS moderator.

    Either play along or moderate as impartial moderator.

    But Gary, aren't these YOUR words?

    " It's not fair, it's not a democracy, I could care less what you think about me.. I follow my own set of rules and was aked to take over and control this forum and that's what I'm going to do."

    It seems you speak out of both sides of your mouth Sir, when it is convenient to do so.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Officer
    Tom... I've seen those words written before.

    Gary... Any idea where I may have seen them?
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,149 AG
    Got TA Go wrote: »
    Yes, the data collection is now and has always been the issue.

    Until we find a way to refine the MRIP data, the data will always be flawed.

    In my opinion, that's the crux of the issue. You are dead on correct to point it out, and I think we should focus more on just that. The rest (from all sides) is noise, and only divides us. This topic is no different in that regard.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,572 Captain
    Tarponator wrote: »
    In my opinion, that's the crux of the issue. You are dead on correct to point it out, and I think we should focus more on just that. The rest (from all sides) is noise, and only divides us. This topic is no different in that regard.

    Actually, regional management is a direct response to the bogus federal data - the states can do a MUCH better job.

    The concept of managing the Gulf red snapper as one unit has no scientific justification. Why should it matter what is happening with red snapper fishing in Florida relative to what is happening in Texas? It shouldn't.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,149 AG
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Actually, regional management is a direct response to the bogus federal data - the states can do a MUCH better job.

    The concept of managing the Gulf red snapper as one unit has no scientific justification. Why should it matter what is happening with red snapper fishing in Florida relative to what is happening in Texas? It shouldn't.

    Actually, it's a direct response not to the data, but rather that the regulations haven't changed fast enough for some people's liking. You know, including, not coincidentally, those people whose livelihood directly or indirectly depends on harvesting those fish (and, for instance, selling services to fishermen whose intent is to do so). Do you know anyone like that?

    No scientific justification? What are you talking about? If managing them as one unit has no scientific justification, neither does managing them by the state...and I should also point out that the reason we're even having this conversation, about loosening the regulations around RS, is because of the feds managing them as one unit and their very obvious rebound that resulted directly from managing them that way.

    Fish have tails and they can and do swim -- so what happens in Texas or Florida or Louisiana affects the entire gulf and the fish know no borders. The real reason you want the states to manage the fishery themselves is because you think it will give you a longer season and the ability to take more fish across a longer period of time (and, presumably, sell products and/or services to them year round).

    Which is cool, there's nothing wrong with self-interest in and of itself, but let's call a spade a spade....and consider how that self-interest may weave its way into moderation of this forum, both directly and indirectly -- which was the point of my original post.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,572 Captain
    Tarponator - I don't make my living on red snapper fishing, so your insinuations are without merit and an obvious attempt to derail the conversation. I do have quite a few customers who use my subscription service in Florida, and those customers value my input on not only where to fish, but safeguarding our children's fishing future which is under direct frontal attack by interests pushing to privatize our fisheries. State management would not allow privatization and is why the EDF-funded folks prefer the present failed status who federal management. And yes, it is a failure since our own federal fisheries managers are complicit in this scam to convert our public trust resources into private commodities via catch shares.

    You have also insinuated that I am using this forum to promote my service which is untrue.

    I also post under my own name as I hav nothing to hide, unlike posters who rely on screen names to keep their identities secret. Makes one wonder why someone, if they really feel strongly about an issue, why they refuse to put their name behind it. That's usually because they have their own self interests at hand, that they are not willing to have full disclosure about.
  • Ol MuckyOl Mucky Posts: 5,476 Admiral
    Got TA Go wrote: »
    Yes, the data collection is now and has always been the issue.

    Until we find a way to refine the MRIP data, the data will always be flawed.

    There have been several easy answers to help pinpoint the actual user base in a known fishing universe which would bring more accurate data into play, yet both the GC and SAFMC has deemed those methods to hard.

    Yet with the current system, we have data that is discarded by the scientist that designed the system and deem the data as unreliable. And that based on a system they designed.

    In all my years being directly involved as a member of SAFMC Snapper/Grouper AP.... I have not seen a single improvement on data collection that did not financially benefit a Govt agency or NGO.

    The focus has turned to managing the fishermen, not the fish.

    Sad State of Affairs.



    Can this be taken as an interest for a non-paying position, in an hostile Cyber-World environment for which the onlookers delve into your personal life for any opportunity to take potshots at your positions on various fisheries issue?

    :USA

    I understand how you feel.

    Thats what got me into this place in the beginning.

    Rob


    It blows my mind (well a couple things do), that we here on this forum can clearly see poor data, the idiotic math in accounting for catch totals, and everything else they do to arrive at the restrictions they put on the rec guys.
    I believe my 9 yo boy would see it as well.
    Yet it continues. For years. How???

    Other item, how in the wide world of sports does a commercial entity get granted a 97% (hell even a 50%) take of a public resource ???


    good thread btw ....on many accounts
    I have a much bigger and more powerful button
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,149 AG
    Tom Hilton wrote: »
    Tarponator - I don't make my living on red snapper fishing, so your insinuations are without merit and an obvious attempt to derail the conversation. I do have quite a few customers who use my subscription service in Florida, and those customers value my input on not only where to fish, but safeguarding our children's fishing future which is under direct frontal attack by interests pushing to privatize our fisheries. State management would not allow privatization and is why the EDF-funded folks prefer the present failed status who federal management. And yes, it is a failure since our own federal fisheries managers are complicit in this scam to convert our public trust resources into private commodities via catch shares.

    You have also insinuated that I am using this forum to promote my service which is untrue.

    I also post under my own name as I hav nothing to hide, unlike posters who rely on screen names to keep their identities secret. Makes one wonder why someone, if they really feel strongly about an issue, why they refuse to put their name behind it. That's usually because they have their own self interests at hand, that they are not willing to have full disclosure about.

    I never said nor insinuated that you made your living on snapper fishing or that you use this forum to promote your services.

    Stop lying.

    However, what I have said, unequivocally, is that you have a financial interest in the fishery rules being changed. Do you deny it?

    I didn't think so.

    Furthermore, I have called into question your status as a Texan and a business owner, when combined with your moderator status, and how that might affect participation in this forum and if that's a good thing for the forum.

    I argue that it's bad, and you have no business moderating this forum given all of the above. But that's just my opinion as a forum participant -- nothing more and nothing less, and you are of course free to disagree -- and let's not forget I don't make the rules here nor do I enforce them.

    Lastly, the fishery management is certainly a failure by your measure. However, you are hardly the only one with an interest. All those RS swimming around because of those same "failed" regulations might disagree, as might our children and grandchildren who will have a nice fishery left for them because of the same "failed" management you lobby so hard on this forum to convince us is really anything but failed by that measure.

    Or is that just the boogey man, I mean EDF, talking?...Mike

    p.s. I'm more than happy to share my real name with you if you'd like. Although I don't post under my real name, it is not a secret, I have shared it multiple times, and I don't hide behind anything or from anyone.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,455 Admiral
    Ol Mucky wrote: »
    It blows my mind (well a couple things do), that we here on this forum can clearly see poor data, the idiotic math in accounting for catch totals, and everything else they do to arrive at the restrictions they put on the rec guys.
    I believe my 9 yo boy would see it as well.
    Yet it continues. For years. How???

    Other item, how in the wide world of sports does a commercial entity get granted a 97% (hell even a 50%) take of a public resource ???


    good thread btw ....on many accounts
    Which fin fishery grants 97% to the commercials?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Which fin fishery grants 97% to the commercials?

    http://safmc.net/Library/pdf/Comp%20ACL%20Am%20101411%20FINAL.pdf

    Excuse my absence.... I busy releasing the highly endangered Red Grouper today.

    Caught no less than 25 of them.

    Long day in the Tortugas today, will respond more directly to the question tomorrow.

    And address some of the other goings on. :fishing

    Rob
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Officer
    And will also include the 95% allocations for species to the Comm Sector.
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,455 Admiral
    Let's go with the GOM Rob, that's my area.

    It's certainly not red or gag grouper, nor ARS, Mahi, nor Triggers.
    Cobia? Nope!

    Amber jack? Nah.
    Mangrove snapper? No.
    Yellowtail? no

    Maybe some Deep Water Groupers or Tiles?? don't really keep up with them as most are out of reach for anglers in out region.

    Swords maybe? Kings?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Got TA GoGot TA Go Posts: 2,608 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Let's go with the GOM Rob, that's my area

    Being that I live and fish in KW.... I'm Bi-fishery. Lol

    In reality, I'm Tri-Fishery, one because I will try any fishery... And two, because I'm facing GOM, SAFMC and Fl State rules.

    I wish I only had 1 set of rules to follow.

    Yes, Puns were intended. ��
    www.gottagofishinginkeywest.com


    Hero's Don't Wear Capes....They Wear Dog Tags.
  • Docked WagesDocked Wages Posts: 2,746 Admin
    Tarponator wrote: »
    I never said nor insinuated that you made your living on snapper fishing or that you use this forum to promote your services.

    Stop lying.

    However, what I have said, unequivocally, is that you have a financial interest in the fishery rules being changed. Do you deny it?

    I didn't think so.

    Furthermore, I have called into question your status as a Texan and a business owner, when combined with your moderator status, and how that might affect participation in this forum and if that's a good thing for the forum.

    I argue that it's bad, and you have no business moderating this forum given all of the above. But that's just my opinion as a forum participant -- nothing more and nothing less, and you are of course free to disagree -- and let's not forget I don't make the rules here nor do I enforce them.

    Lastly, the fishery management is certainly a failure by your measure. However, you are hardly the only one with an interest. All those RS swimming around because of those same "failed" regulations might disagree, as might our children and grandchildren who will have a nice fishery left for them because of the same "failed" management you lobby so hard on this forum to convince us is really anything but failed by that measure.

    Or is that just the boogey man, I mean EDF, talking?...Mike

    p.s. I'm more than happy to share my real name with you if you'd like. Although I don't post under my real name, it is not a secret, I have shared it multiple times, and I don't hide behind anything or from anyone.


    A lot of our moderators are either self employed or business owners, all with a passion to fish or support the fisheries. This is not by design but certainly welcomed. As a business owner you generally seem to understand the bigger picture and be accountable for your business or actions. Perhaps that is why so many have been asked to volunteer as a moderator.

    What is not allowed is to use this forum for the sole purpose of promoting your business and by your opening statement its clear that you do not believe that Tom is doing this. Business owners also learn to optimize time management and therefore they seem to be the ones that participate on a more frequent scale which is important as a moderator.

    I hear from time to time concerns with two of our moderators being from Texas, and both coincidently are business owners. Conservation is not limited to the state of Florida and the battles we face are mostly with Federal regulations, not state regulations. The larger our voice is and the more diverse we are the more impact we can have. The Gulf of Mexico is a big part of the Florida fishery and their rules and management have a significant impact on our fisheries. We have 27 moderators and several have moved out of state and some have returned. In this day of social media you don't have geographical boundaries.
    Mark Wilson
    AF1.124213220_sq_thumb_s.jpg
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