70 day state water's ARS season

harbisonharbison Posts: 2,565 Captain
Commission approves 70-day recreational red snapper season in Gulf state waters

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) approved a 70-day recreational red snapper season for Gulf state waters at the April 16 meeting in Tallahassee. Red snapper is a popular species that has a strong economic impact for many coastal communities throughout Florida.
The 2015 season will start the Saturday before Memorial Day (May 23) and run through July 12, resume for all of Labor Day weekend (Sept. 5-7) and finish with Saturdays and Sundays throughout the rest of September and all of October, with the last day of harvest being Sunday, Nov. 1.
The 2015 Gulf federal waters recreational red snapper season has not been set yet and will be announced later this spring by NOAA Fisheries.


I asked Mr. Nick Wiley, Executive Director FWC, how he thought this would effect the Federal waters ARS season. I noted that in Central Florida we have no red snapper in state waters.

Mr. Wiley's reply:







Hello Bob. Good question. This was discussed in great detail at the FWC Commission meeting today. The concern regarding red snapper in state waters off the coast of central and southwest Florida was a big part of the discussion. Our Commissioners clearly wanted to provide more opportunity for red snapper fishing in federal waters and asked staff to explain the tradeoffs regarding this issue. A lot of the discussion was about staying with the 54 day season similar to last year versus a 70 day season which includes fishing opportunity in state waters on weekends in September and October. The projected federal waters season would be in the range of 7 to 11 days with the 70-day state waters season. We cannot predict for certain how many additional days in federal waters we would gain if we stayed with a 54-day season in state waters, but our best estimate is a few days (2, 3, maybe 4). I have copied Jessica and Martha and would ask them to make sure I got these numbers correct. After a lot of good public input and discussion among Commissioners, the decision was made (in a split vote) to go with 70 days. We all definitely want to see more fishing days for red snapper in federal waters, and we will continue to push as hard as we can for this. Thank you. Nick



Nick Wiley

Executive Director

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

Office Phone (850) 487-3796

FAX (850) 921-5786

Please visit our website at the following link:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

image001_zps0eb0832j.png

Replies

  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,565 Captain
    This just in from Mr. Wiley regarding ARS & opening gag grouper in state waters before they migrate and scatter into deeper waters.

    "Thank you Bob. I understand and regret the federal waters red snapper situation. I truly wish we had better options on this. I will pass along your suggestion regarding gag grouper to Jessica and her team so they can give it consideration. Hang in there." Nick

    Nick Wiley
    Executive Director
    Florida Fish & Wildlife
    Conservation Commission
    MyFWC.com

    Guys, if we want realistic seasons based on real science.we must let those in charge know where we stand. Apathy is killing us. Bob H.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    harbison wrote: »
    This just in from Mr. Wiley regarding ARS & opening gag grouper in state waters before they migrate and scatter into deeper waters.

    "Thank you Bob. I understand and regret the federal waters red snapper situation. I truly wish we had better options on this. I will pass along your suggestion regarding gag grouper to Jessica and her team so they can give it consideration. Hang in there." Nick

    Nick Wiley
    Executive Director
    Florida Fish & Wildlife
    Conservation Commission
    MyFWC.com

    Guys, if we want realistic seasons based on real science.we must let those in charge know where we stand. Apathy is killing us. Bob H.

    So FWC just screwed any private angler or charter/head boat south of Panama City, where ARS are only available in federal waters, in favor of the panhandle, where fish can be caught in state waters? Is that what I'm reading?

    What was the scientific basis for this extended state water season? Did they provide estimates of how much would be caught in state waters (in the panhandle, obviously) during this extended season?

    And did they do any economic impact studies of what this means to fishers south of Panama City who basically only get whatever the federal season is because of this pandering to the panhandle?
  • upinthewaterupinthewater Posts: 202 Officer
    the few extra days in state mean little to nothing and pale in comparison to the overall number of days we would receive in Fed Waters regardless. After all it is easy math - the volume of water to support bio-mass in State Water is less than 10% of the volume 10-200 miles - So in reality it should only be a 1 for 10 ratio - and that ratio (in favor of NOAA) should be the reason to keep in lock-step with the fed plan. I'll take the extra in less and poke around for less that wait around for the Feds to come up with some type of realistic plan - which they haven't in yearssss............
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,572 Captain
    Florida should have gone to 365 days and shut the whole enchilada down - until there is a TOTAL shutdown there never be an actual solution brought to the table.

    AM 40 is certainly not the solution, as we will certainly witness first hand.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 2,565 Captain
    The feds must be stopped!
    I fish out of Madeira Beach, Florida. We have absolutely NO red snapper in state waters. Non-the-less, I support what the state is doing. I want to catch American reds a much as anyone. However, the feds must be stopped. Our state is doing just that. Every single year the federal season gets shorter & shorter. Last year we had 9 days; it can't get much shorter than that. The feds have very little left to take. Even if I cannot keep American reds I am glad that some can.
    Amendment 40: The Gulf Council's own web sight recorded a public rejection rate of well
    over 90%. So what? NOAA gets what NOAA wants. It's time, way past time, for the states to take control. The feds must be stopped!
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    BubbaII wrote: »
    So FWC just screwed any private angler or charter/head boat south of Panama City, where ARS are only available in federal waters, in favor of the panhandle, where fish can be caught in state waters? Is that what I'm reading?

    What was the scientific basis for this extended state water season? Did they provide estimates of how much would be caught in state waters (in the panhandle, obviously) during this extended season?

    And did they do any economic impact studies of what this means to fishers south of Panama City who basically only get whatever the federal season is because of this pandering to the panhandle?

    I assume the west coast of Florida is similar to the east side in how data (Science) is collected.
    On the east coast most science comes from the State of Florida. Tagging studies of reef fish,
    dock side interviews and even Charter surveys are all from the State of Florida. While this data is
    compiled, considered and utilized at the state planning level, copies are also passed onto the Feds.
    Unfortunately, even though this data is the majority of the Feds hard data, its only averaged in
    with their modeling projections. State biologist have very little confidence is how the Feds use their
    data and with good reason. The states have good science, better than the feds.

    The feds stuck it to the states is what happened. They threw untold thousands of family level anglers
    under the bus simply to bolster the profits of a small number of Charter Business owners including a few
    of their fellow council members. BTW...the feds failed to do any economic impact study of Am40 before
    passing it, so why is it even brought up in this conversation?
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    harbison wrote: »
    The feds must be stopped!
    I fish out of Madeira Beach, Florida. We have absolutely NO red snapper in state waters. Non-the-less, I support what the state is doing. I want to catch American reds a much as anyone. However, the feds must be stopped. Our state is doing just that. Every single year the federal season gets shorter & shorter. Last year we had 9 days; it can't get much shorter than that. The feds have very little left to take. Even if I cannot keep American reds I am glad that some can.
    Amendment 40: The Gulf Council's own web sight recorded a public rejection rate of well
    over 90%. So what? NOAA gets what NOAA wants. It's time, way past time, for the states to take control. The feds must be stopped!

    Capt.

    I guess you don't see the own irony in your own post. You are getting screwed by FL by letting the panhandle have access to a state water resource that you have no access to, but if FL didn't give the panhandle such an advantage, you'd have more days in federal waters. Your own state screwed you ..... in favor of the panhandle. Its got nothing to do with the feds. Your FL's 70 day state season means nothing to you, but it means a ton to the panhandle guys. Your FWC just shoved it up your.....
  • upinthewaterupinthewater Posts: 202 Officer
    That measly 70 day season don't mean squat to the Feds number of days (even if AM40 wasn't around - and my understanding not a done deal - no sig). When the Fed was 40 sumtin - and state matched - what did the Fed do? Reduce to 9 (settled on 11). Oh boy that sure shows if the state complies the Feds will give us more - THEY WONT EVER!

    NOAA = NO ACTIVE ANGLERS! Think about it, PEW and EDP are actually going to let you catch a fish in "their" aquarium? I doubt it - and that is the attroscity!
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,277 Officer
    Seems to me that if those of us in the state of Florida are satisfied with how "our waters" are being managed, those from other states can go push rode up hill.

    After all remember you just said, "Its got nothing to do with the feds". Talk about ironic, if that is true then why are the feds and all the catch share cowboys in such a tizzy over how Florida wants to manage it's own fish in state waters.

    Just think of all those snapper that will be harvested in 70 days by John Q. Public. All those that will escape the future fate of having a "catch share price" thrown on them to make money for a piscatory carpetbagger.

    Just knowing a few kids will actually get to go and bring home a fish that they caught and didn't buy, that will make it fine with me, even if I don't get a chance to do so in the areas I may fish. :cool:

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,572 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    Capt.

    I guess you don't see the own irony in your own post. You are getting screwed by FL by letting the panhandle have access to a state water resource that you have no access to, but if FL didn't give the panhandle such an advantage, you'd have more days in federal waters. Your own state screwed you ..... in favor of the panhandle. Its got nothing to do with the feds. Your FL's 70 day state season means nothing to you, but it means a ton to the panhandle guys. Your FWC just shoved it up your.....

    No - it is the states who are actually standing up for the rights and best interests of the Gulf recreational anglers and communities - you have it backwards. The federal fisheries management process has become a very bad joke, controlled by a corporation, and everyone knows it.
  • johnboy114johnboy114 Posts: 32 Greenhorn
    BubbaII wrote: »

    What was the scientific basis for this extended state water season? Did they provide estimates of how much would be caught in state waters (in the panhandle, obviously) during this extended season?

    And did they do any economic impact studies of what this means to fishers south of Panama City who basically only get whatever the federal season is because of this pandering to the panhandle?

    You are a piece of work. What scientific data do the Feds that you seem to support provide??????? What about federal economic studies on the impact of the past red snapper season. Come on dude. You got to to better than that. You can't demand something you can't provide. Seriously.
  • markw4321markw4321 Posts: 171 Officer
    BubbaII wrote: »
    So FWC just screwed any private angler or charter/head boat south of Panama City, where ARS are only available in federal waters, in favor of the panhandle, where fish can be caught in state waters? Is that what I'm reading?

    What was the scientific basis for this extended state water season? Did they provide estimates of how much would be caught in state waters (in the panhandle, obviously) during this extended season?

    And did they do any economic impact studies of what this means to fishers south of Panama City who basically only get whatever the federal season is because of this pandering to the panhandle?

    For a casual observer you sure are emotional about this. I have been in several fwc meetings regarding this subject in the past year and the ONLY people that asked about the scientific basis for this initiative were edf backed charter and commercial captains. Tells me all I need to know.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    markw4321 wrote: »
    For a casual observer you sure are emotional about this. I have been in several fwc meetings regarding this subject in the past year and the ONLY people that asked about the scientific basis for this initiative were edf backed charter and commercial captains. Tells me all I need to know.

    You seem to forget. That panhandle bonus does more than affect the the bulk of FL; it also cuts into options for states like AL, MS, and LA (although LA apparently doesn't enforce it) with only 3 mile limits.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,277 Officer
    I hope it also "cuts into options" like the "red snapper catch share retirement plan".:)

    That plan some of the old and fading away resource abusers think they are some how entitled to, while they sit in their rocking chairs and the next generation pays them to harvest fish. :rolleyes

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    I hope it also "cuts into options" like the "red snapper catch share retirement plan".:)

    That plan some of the old and fading away resource abusers think they are some how entitled to, while they sit in their rocking chairs and the next generation pays them to harvest fish. :rolleyes

    not sure how commercial ties into this. They get what they get; you get what you get; they don't blow their quotas because when they run out of allocation, they're done. If you're referring to that Congressional plan, that is a high stakes gamble that it will occur. Lots of bugs in that system. For example, how do you take red snapper out of the FMP, but then expect the Council/NMFS to continue to manage the IFQ?

    Back on point, as someone said, state days are not one-for-one; its probably 2-3 state days (in FL) to 1 fed day. So, lets say FL went 30 days instead of 70. That 40 day difference could be as much as 2-3 wk more for AL-MS fishermen, and peninsula FL.
  • CountryBumpkinCountryBumpkin Fla. Piney WoodsPosts: 1,277 Officer
    Proverbs 26-4........Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

    I say......I say son.......new & improved my tail feathers.

  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    BubbaII wrote: »
    not sure how commercial ties into this. They get what they get; you get what you get; they don't blow their quotas because when they run out of allocation, they're done. If you're referring to that Congressional plan, that is a high stakes gamble that it will occur. Lots of bugs in that system. For example, how do you take red snapper out of the FMP, but then expect the Council/NMFS to continue to manage the IFQ?

    Back on point, as someone said, state days are not one-for-one; its probably 2-3 state days (in FL) to 1 fed day. So, lets say FL went 30 days instead of 70. That 40 day difference could be as much as 2-3 wk more for AL-MS fishermen, and peninsula FL.

    Think the IFQ comment was more about the EDF/Separatist goal for the CFH management.

    NOAA chart only showed a few days more access if all states seasons were consistent with the
    Fed season. Hardly worth giving up allowing someone to have a chance to fish for just a few
    more days, especially with the NMFS gifting 45 days to recreational anglers that are willing to
    pay for a ride to the fishing grounds.
  • bay20bay20 Posts: 1,485 Officer
    Maybe they should make the charter guys have VMS's installed on their boats like the commercial guys.
  • ACME Ventures FishingACME Ventures Fishing Posts: 851 Officer
    bay20 wrote: »
    Maybe they should make the charter guys have VMS's installed on their boats like the commercial guys.

    That's exactly what the Sepratist are pushing. They claim it will make them accountable. In fact most of the Sepratist are already dual permitted and run VMS to allow LEO to catch cheaters. They are also pushing for a program that would pay the equipment cost for them. Wonder if those already owning a VMS would make money on that deal? Of coarse we have the same group pushing for a Red Drum Breeder fish EFP so they can sell Trophy trips in Fed Waters for Reds......All in the name of science.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Proverbs 26-4........Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

    aw..... c'mon. You don't have to quote the scriptures. Both our grand pappies told us never to argue with a fool, because bystanders will have a hard time deciding which is which.
  • BubbaIIBubbaII Posts: 328 Deckhand
    Think the IFQ comment was more about the EDF/Separatist goal for the CFH management.

    NOAA chart only showed a few days more access if all states seasons were consistent with the
    Fed season. Hardly worth giving up allowing someone to have a chance to fish for just a few
    more days, especially with the NMFS gifting 45 days to recreational anglers that are willing to
    pay for a ride to the fishing grounds.

    what chart are you talking about? if states went consistent, then both groups would get the same number of days.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,572 Captain
    BubbaII wrote: »
    what chart are you talking about? if states went consistent, then both groups would get the same number of days.

    Not true. If states went compliant and there was NO SECTOR SEPARATION, then yes, everyone would get the same number of days.

    The whole reason for sector separation was to SEPARATE so that they could be EQUAL (Separate But Equal Doctrine reincarnated). They made them "equal" by giving the for-hire sector MORE fishing days based on years' past and due to supposed overages due to state noncompliance (Reparations reincarnated). Roy Crabtree stated as such when there was a move to eliminate 30B - he said that there could be no sector separation without 30B in place, which is why he fought to keep it there.

    Refer to the graph below - "Sector Separation - Compatible State Seasons". Private recs receive between 20-35% of the season days - hardly "equal" - DISCRIMINATION based on the SEGREGATION provided by AM 40.

    http://www.gulfcouncil.org/news_resources/Press%20Releases/April%20Council%20Update%202015.pdf
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 3,981 Captain
    Dang Floridians and going to wipe out the red snapper population!!
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.
  • ericfericf Posts: 442 Deckhand
    surfman wrote: »
    Dang Floridians and going to wipe out the red snapper population!!

    What would they talk about in Conservation Front then?

    Tight Lines,
    Eric Fosbender

    Team Googanator

    2006 Bull Dolphin 22 with 250 Etec
  • mjacksmjacks Posts: 151 Deckhand
    For the true American recreational angler - be it inshore or offshore, please support the FRA lawsuit to fight Amendment 40. Even if you don't fish for Red Snapper, the implementation of Amendment 40 will definitely affect you in the future, regardless of species and regardless of your fishing preferences. Please do not sit on the sidelines and watch your basic freedoms erode even further. Act now!

    From the FRA and Attorney Craig Berman:

    "To fight Amendment 40, it will take at least $60,000 for legal fees and other expenses, including an appeal if necessary.
    Monetary donations can be made by check payable to the FRA Red Snapper Defense Fund and sent to Craig L. Berman, Esq., 111 Second Avenue NE, Suite 706, St. Petersburg, Florida 33701 (727) 550-8989. Credit card donations can be phoned into my office. Paypal donations should be made to [email protected].
    Any monies will be kept in a Trust Account and used to pay attorney invoices generated and approved by the FRA. The lawsuit on Amendment 40 will be filed only if sufficient donations are made. Any person who donates at least $1,000 will be a named plaintiff and a client of my firm, Berman Law Firm, P.A. If anyone has questions, please call Craig L. Berman at 727-515-0847 or email [email protected].
    Donations can be made at www.joinfra.org"

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