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View Full Version : What am I doing wrong? Knots 101



Beefer
07-10-2011, 07:10 PM
I've spent the last 1.5 hours trying to splice 12lb mono to 12lb mono. I've tried a blood knot, and when I trim the tag end, the knot falls apart when I give it a tug. I started off by doing uni-uni, but the 2 uni's wouldn't come together?? I would end up with the 2 uni's about an inch apart from each other. I'm wetting the line, but they just won't go together.

What knot do you use for mono-mono splices? Or, what am I doing wrong?

pupraiser
07-10-2011, 07:33 PM
Pull the uni knot together. I don't know what else to tell you. If they won't pull together, then you are tying them incorrectly. Maybe you are crocheting or something?!?:huh

Crab Bait
07-10-2011, 08:12 PM
On the uni, each knot is only supposed to be tied around the other line. By around I mean the mono is supposed to be straight and uninterrupted by the knot being wrapped or tied around it. Don't know how much help this description will be but good luck.

WharfRat71
07-10-2011, 08:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WigqdKpE7M

Crab Bait
07-10-2011, 08:15 PM
http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php
This site will help more than my description...sorry.

Crab Bait
07-10-2011, 08:21 PM
Wharf rat for the win! Nice video.

Beefer
07-10-2011, 10:40 PM
I got it. I was wrapping about 6-7 times, and the uni's were tightening too quickly. I went to 4 wraps on each, and was able to (finally) get it. I never have problems when tying a single uni, and they always hold well, so it was really bugging me that I couldn't get the double. Thanks guys.

Tarpon Nole
07-10-2011, 10:49 PM
uni/uni is good, but I started tying this one.

just a little more compact imo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi4BE-vNqPE

sharkatak1089
07-10-2011, 11:05 PM
uni/uni is good, but I started tying this one.

just a little more compact imo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi4BE-vNqPE

Wow..never seen that one. I like small. Tell me what you're using this knot for, i.e. types of fishing and target species.

Tarpon Nole
07-10-2011, 11:12 PM
Wow..never seen that one. I like small. Tell me what you're using this knot for, i.e. types of fishing and target species.

I double the 10lb powerpro, then tie to 20-30 flouro for inshore

for tarpon, or other longer leaders, it's great because you can reel it through the guides and it doesn't catch

Permit Rat
07-11-2011, 11:23 AM
Guys....I watched that video and it is not how the original slim beauty was ever tied. I never really understood the mass hysteria over the original knot, said to be developed by Simon Becker, a flats guide in Key West. I know Simon well, and we fished together several times, before he really started guiding. Marshall Cutchin and I sort of helped him get started.

This is why I was so amazed when the slim beauty became such an overnight "rage" in the fly fishing world. Because it is nothing more than a Huffnagel knot, except the knot in the leader material is a simple overhand (NOT like the video) and then it is finished exactly as a Huffnagel would be finished. The Huffnagel uses a surgeon's knot (double overhand ...and like the video) I simply do not see the advantage. If one properly tightens a surgeon's knot, (Hufnagel) it is not appreciatively larger than a simple overhand (slim beauty). In fact, the former gives you a better grip on the fishing line, because the line passes through twice, and not just once.

Both knots are finished with a "whip" finish, which is not unlike a uni knot tied over the standing leader material. I have never heard of this "wrapping the line down and then back again"....for either knot! First of all, I can see serious issues with all that line bunching up against the knot in the leader material, if not tightened just right. But then, the video makes reference to its application for braid and I do not use braid, so.....who knows?

I could get into a real history lesson here, as I still have issue with the Huffnagel knot being called a "Huffnagel." Because Ralph Delph and I were using this knot for our shock tippets, several years before it was ever popularized by Huffnagel, in a fly fishing magazine. The knot was shown to Ralph, by the late John Emery, about 1979-80.

sharkatak1089
07-11-2011, 01:25 PM
so what i gathered from skimming was that i should not use that knot. right?

Permit Rat
07-11-2011, 03:19 PM
If you're asking me, I don't know what to tell you. Are you trying to connect braid to a mono leader or top shot? The OP was wanting to connect mono to mono. I didn't reply to that, because others had already done so and in a way which I happen to agree with. I would only say that he is using the right knots.....but just not tying them correctly.

Like I said, I don't use braid and probably never will, except for my fly line backing. But NO, I would not use the knot as it was finished in the video. And I think I still favor the Huffnagel/Emery knot, over the slim beauty...simply for the same reason I described in my original post: The surgeon's knot (double overhand) grabs more of that line passisng through, than a simple overhand knot. But there's another reason too:

Both of the above mentioned knots have the potential to crush the line running through them, when they are properly tightened. With braid, this is of no concern, but crimping or crushing mono, reduces its diameter and therefore weakens it. You can prove this for yourself, and if you don't see "krinkley" line, you're not tightening the surgeon's knot/overhand knot sufficiently. So after you run the line through the knot and tighten it, pull some new line through, until you see the crushed/crimped line. It is best to have the crimps on the side you will use to whip-finish the knot. Even though it might be a little weaker, to use this line in finishing, will not weaken the knot as a whole. A surgeon's knot (especially in the higher line tests) is harder to tighten than a simple overhand knot. You might be able to crunch down an overhand knot, such that it is impossible to pull the line through. This means you may have crushed that mono too much and you will have a weak connection.

I hope I could explain that clearly enough. I am merely trying to point out a potential danger of a Huffnagel or slim beauty knot. After tightening the surgeon's knot, it is wise to pull a little "fresh" monofilament through, before finishing.

SaltyKoi
07-11-2011, 07:02 PM
I like using a reverse albright

Hooked
07-11-2011, 11:57 PM
I double the 10lb powerpro, then tie to 20-30 flouro for inshore

for tarpon, or other longer leaders, it's great because you can reel it through the guides and it doesn't catch


Thank you Tarpon Nole for that Knot vid.. I like the style of knot, going to try it out.

johnD
07-12-2011, 01:04 AM
modified albright beat the uni/uni in knot wars ,but I still tie the uni/uni it has not failed me yet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_2xautA1U&feature=channel_video_title

Hooked
07-12-2011, 01:20 AM
The uni/uni knot has been the knot I have always used and it is a good / strong knot but I am always willing to test other knots and see what works best with my style of fishing.

sharkatak1089
07-12-2011, 02:12 AM
If you're asking me, I don't know what to tell you. Are you trying to connect braid to a mono leader or top shot? The OP was wanting to connect mono to mono. I didn't reply to that, because others had already done so and in a way which I happen to agree with. I would only say that he is using the right knots.....but just not tying them correctly.

Like I said, I don't use braid and probably never will, except for my fly line backing. But NO, I would not use the knot as it was finished in the video. And I think I still favor the Huffnagel/Emery knot, over the slim beauty...simply for the same reason I described in my original post: The surgeon's knot (double overhand) grabs more of that line passisng through, than a simple overhand knot. But there's another reason too:

Both of the above mentioned knots have the potential to crush the line running through them, when they are properly tightened. With braid, this is of no concern, but crimping or crushing mono, reduces its diameter and therefore weakens it. You can prove this for yourself, and if you don't see "krinkley" line, you're not tightening the surgeon's knot/overhand knot sufficiently. So after you run the line through the knot and tighten it, pull some new line through, until you see the crushed/crimped line. It is best to have the crimps on the side you will use to whip-finish the knot. Even though it might be a little weaker, to use this line in finishing, will not weaken the knot as a whole. A surgeon's knot (especially in the higher line tests) is harder to tighten than a simple overhand knot. You might be able to crunch down an overhand knot, such that it is impossible to pull the line through. This means you may have crushed that mono too much and you will have a weak connection.

I hope I could explain that clearly enough. I am merely trying to point out a potential danger of a Huffnagel or slim beauty knot. After tightening the surgeon's knot, it is wise to pull a little "fresh" monofilament through, before finishing.

I only use the uni2uni...for connecting braid to fluoro. thanks for the info

Cliffdweller
07-13-2011, 11:55 AM
You have received a lot of good information on knots, but do not forget the spit. I have found that when pulling tight with dry line on a uni to uni or an albright they would often break with a light pull of the line when I tightened the knot down. That does not happen when I tie the knots and lubricate them when pulling the knots tight.