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View Full Version : To the 4 guys in the 17' Key West:



redfish86
07-06-2011, 08:56 AM
Look, when you come barreling up on a spot that you and I both know you didn't pay for, permit, and deploy and you see 2 boats (as in myself and the other guy who paid for, permitted, and deployed) already fishing there, why don't you have the decency to freakin fish somewhere else for the day? I mean, come on man. There's 2 FREAKIN boats fishing already! You've obviously been here before so you damn well know it's not a 100' Liberty Ship down there. The only justice here is that as soon as you showed up, flipper came along. I sure hope you enjoyed fighting him while we moved on to another place to throw back 24" fish because they were the small ones. Why don't y'all get your collective heads out of your posteriors and show some common freakin courtesy?

Idiots.

Sea-Lie'n
07-06-2011, 09:26 AM
Grin and bear it, it happens all the time.

BigRick
07-06-2011, 10:45 AM
welcome to the gulf of mexico, I always have boats changing direction to come by me and mark my spots. There's some I won't fish unless there is no one in site. Last saturday I saw about 9 boats sitting on the libert ship out of destin, I was just wondering how that worked. The fact is a lot of people aren't even local and will do whatever they can to find some fish even if it means pulling up to boats and marking spots. One day they'll piss off the wrong person. I know quite a few people that are packing serious heat out there.

BigRick
07-06-2011, 10:46 AM
am I getting paid for these advertisement on my post??

Bigfoot
07-06-2011, 11:24 AM
No one owns all of the ocean...marking spots with today's electronics is EZPZ. There are NO secret spots - fish on!

BigRick
07-06-2011, 11:34 AM
regardless of who owns the ocean I know people that spends thousands and thousands putting out structure and if some one rode up on one of them and tried that stuff, there'd be trouble.....

Split Shot
07-06-2011, 11:48 AM
What kind of trouble? Flockers with continue no matter what.

BigRick
07-06-2011, 11:58 AM
I've heard of people shooting flares at others, pulling guns, even heard of 2 guys getting into it and someone putting a round of buckshot threw the others outboard. I'm not saying its rite, I just know when someone spends that kind of money, they do think they own it and mix that with alcohol and no one being in site and you could find trouble.

redfish86
07-06-2011, 12:05 PM
Look, I know I don't "own" it even though I'm the one who went through the motions physically and financially. My point is they KNEW it's just a spot they "found". So maybe they should have exercised a little gray matter and thought " hey, those are probably the guys who built this tiny spot (2 chicken cages btw) and we should fish somewhere else." Hey, if I'm not there, knock yourself out. Good for you for finding it.

Of course, I can always just go to one of the other 25 wrecks we built back then and catch more and bigger fish so I still get the last laugh I guess.

redfish86
07-06-2011, 12:07 PM
And these guys didn't just happen by. They were making a beeline for this spot.

Panhandler80
07-06-2011, 12:37 PM
At least they didn't send lines down on the three guys you had on the bottom like I had done to me on Sunday.

AND... we weren't even on a wreck. We were over tons and tons of live bottom. The stuff that you can drift and drift and drift and catch all the snapper you want, yet they pulled RIGHT up to me and dropped lines while I had my flag up and a guy on the bow spotting bubbles.

I couldn't believe it.

Split Shot
07-06-2011, 01:10 PM
At first glance I thought you started this thread.:Grin

donald811
07-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Wonder who paid for that VISITFLORIDA Fishing Capital of the world ad? Sorry for the derail, it just caught my eye.

stingwray
07-07-2011, 08:39 PM
Just my .02
If i am running to one of my #'s and see a boat within a couple of miles i don't fish that #. Next never anchor on a # you don't want to give away. Last if you are fishing one of your # and a boat is making a beeline toward you within a couple of miles, just go to your next #. It has worked for me for over twenty years.

AUMULLET
07-08-2011, 12:06 AM
When you dropped it you knew this day would come. I'm sure if you came up to a spot that you found that had a boat already there you would keep on truckin. At least it wasn't a dive boat coming up on you. You know what those jerks will do!

Bakerman
07-08-2011, 08:51 AM
Four guys in a 17 ft boat. I wouldn't expect too much from them. Rookies.......

Panhandler80
07-08-2011, 09:40 AM
Another thing to consider... 4 guys in a 17footer does sound like rank amateurs.

Obviously a 17 foot boat is all some folks can afford. There are also dang fine fishermen out there in little boats because that might all that want to maintain and they are perectly happy with it. More power to them!

That being said, when you see FOUR people offshore in a little boat... well those are amateurs. I don't like fishing more than 6 in a boat three times that size. Four guys piled into that boat = four guys that are just DYING (and to some extent they run that risk in a little boat like that) to go fishing. No experienced (at least none that I know) fisherman want to go so bad that they put 4 people in a 17ft K.W. I mean, that's just not even fun.

I am not saying that what they did out there on the water is acceptable. I'd be annoyed to. However, seeing as they are likely rank and file newbees... they probably just know that they ran across something that held fish. I doubt that the driver who takes 3 other anglers out on his 17 ft KW is particularly adept when it comes to identifing structure vs natural bottom on his machine. Had he known (based on area, how it was holding fish, signature of relief, etc) it was a tiny piece of wreckage, he probably wouldn't have been quite such a jerk.

Seeing as we can't keep gags right now, I haven't even been bothering with artificial stuff inshore. I have been hitting only natural bottom and essentially just targeting red grouper. Big baits, long soak times, natural bottom. Over the course of the day doing this, we've gotten our 6, 8, and 10 snapper while grouper fishing, and we've had between 3 (on a 3 man trip) and 7 (on a 5 man trip) red grouper go in the box. No real point in targeting snapper. Of course, targeting grouper and boating snapper has always been the way I've snapper fished anyway. This way you catch more grouper and the snappers that take a grouper bait are nice ones. If you just have to round out a limit (which you shouldn't have to try very hard at 2/head), you can hit an artificial piece on the way home with dedicated snapper gear.

SAENole
07-08-2011, 03:49 PM
I try not to fish anything within reach of a 17' boat and that seems to help.

stingwray
07-08-2011, 04:01 PM
PH80
A looong time ago i fished a 19ft boat (only size i could afford back then) and on most trips offshore we had 4 on board and i didn't consider myself a rank amateur. We had some great trips caught a lot of fish and no complained about fishing room. According to your rule for you to be happy to fish 6 people you need a boat 3X17ft which is a 51ft boat. My boat is much smaller then 51ft and i fish 6 to 8 on most trips and none ever complain about fishing room while we are fishing. I think with the current closed seasons i would fish hard for only the fish that are in season, with that said if you only have 4 on board i would only target and keep 24" fish and up, which you can only keep 8. Now if you have 7 on boat you can keep 14 snapper you might only keep 20" and up which is 14 fish. A box of 14 r snapper of 24" and up might be little hard to get. With all that said i would save my r grouper until after r snapper closes and btw they will be a little bigger by then. JMO which isn't worth much.

addicted2reelin
07-08-2011, 09:14 PM
JMO which isn't worth much.
JMO isn't worth much as you are not a local here. You do catch a lot of fish tho....

Panhandler80
07-08-2011, 11:33 PM
19', huh? What kind? I'd be willing to bet that it's a good bit larger than a 17' Key West.

And like I said, a LOT of good fishermen out there in small boats and for a lot of different reasons. Some don't want the hassle associate with keeping up a larger boat, some can't justify the extra expense of a larger boat, some can't afford a larger boat, etc.

I'll stand by original stateent... 4 people offshore in a 17 Key West screams rank amateaur, ESPECIALLY when you consider the context under which this particular group of 4 in a 17' Key West... remember? The boat that ran up on the original poster's spot.

Oh, and as far as me not liking to fish more than 6 people on a boat thre times the size of a 17' Key West... you might want to consider fishable space, not just LOA. This also goes hand in hand that I bet your 19 is probably considerably larger than the 17 foot rank amateurs that pulled up on the oringal poster. The smaller the boat, the greater the percent increase in lenght is for each additional foot. We all know that the difference between a 19 and a 17 is much greater than a 46 and a 44.

WHen I said three times the size for me to be comfortable off shore with 6 anglers I in now way meant that I needed a 51 foot boat. I was thinking about the 34 that I do not own myself, but fish on a lot. 5-6 people in the cockpit is all it handles comforably and then there's one behind the wheel. 34' x 13' give a VERY rough estimate of a footrpring (if the boat was square of course) of 442sq ft. A 17' center with a beam of let's say 7 feet, that's 119 ft^2.

I just said I'd like to have no more than 6 people on a boat roughly 3 times the size of a 17 foot KW. I pulled 3X out of my butt. However, if you divide 442 by 119, you get 3.7.

Maybe I should have said that I don't like to fish more than 6 or s on a boat 3.7 times a 17 ft KW.

I'd say most 19 foot boats, ESPECIALLY OLDER ONES that were flatter in the back with upright hul sides and pig-like bows, have probably 30% more useful space than a new 17 key west. At no point was I doggin' you. I remember man a day 20-25 miles off in dad's 19.5 foot 1982 AMF Robalo with two sets of dive gear, two coolers and 4 people. Boat rode like hell, but that boat (and I suspect the 19' you refered to earlier) are entirely different animals that a 17 FOOT KEY WEST WITH 4 PEOPLE ON IT THAT LIKES TO RUN UP ON A BOAT ALREADY FISHING.

Rank Amateurs!

Ron-da-vu
07-09-2011, 12:34 AM
My comments may really diss some people off, but it needs to be said. Just waht is a "local"? Someone that was born and raised in PC? Someone that lives full time in PC? how long do you need to live in PC to be a "local"? Most everybody fishes federal waters for snapper and grouper. Federal? Last time I checked, I paid my share of federal taxes. {By the way I was born and raised up out on the beach in Panama City.} It's just plain silly to think that someone that lives in PC currently should have any different rights than a greenhorn tourist.

I take some offense in someone that thinks a small boat should also have less rights. I run a 17' Boston Whaler. I do so by choice. It's easier to pull on my trips to the panhandle. Easier to load, {I fish by myself a lot}. I view it as being much safer than a lot of boats out there twice it's size.

As for sinking money into structure, you knew you were doing it on public waters. {Kinda like the man that saved the rattlesnakes life and then it bit him?} No one will blame you for taking evasive action as Sting recommends. Take physical action and it could be you that gets the trouble. If you should either accidently or on purpose hurt someone because they were on your "spot", it would mean certain jail time. is it worth it to you? People in jail can't fish at all last time I checked. At the very least captains have lost their license over such.

Instead of fighting among oursleves, I think we all should turn our attention to NOAA, The Gulf councel, and related organizations, they are trying to take away ALL of your fishing. All that money spent, all the 24" snappers, grouper, and such will just swim around waiting to be caught by the handful of favored commercial fishermen.

Anyway that's my rant. I believe in the above points of view. I ain't zactly a greenhorn tourist either. Prolly fished panhandle waters far more than most posters here. Flaring tempers usually don't solve much. As for me, if you see my little Whaler out there, come on over and jaw a spell. Fish if ya wanna. Two 24" fish ain't worth me getting upset over.

Panhandler80
07-09-2011, 12:53 AM
No temper flaring here.

Was just saying that that I bet StingRay's old 19 foot boat was way bigger of a boat than the new 17 ft KW.

And yes, 4 people on a new KW who pull right up on another guy (tourist or not... no difference) is more than likely a new fisherman. THIS is why I said that in his DEFENSE, he just associated those numbers with a spot where he'd caught fish before. Had he known it was two small pieces of structure, he might have let the original poster sit on it. That's all. We're kind of in agreement here. I was saying cut the guy some slack... clearly he didn't know what he was doing out there, the whole 4 people in a 17' KW.

As to you and your 17' whaler.... AGAIN, whole different ball game. Again, look at USABLE space, that old 17 whaler has as much room as most 19s out there. To this day, I use a 3' x 3' x 3' box that a gentleman and his wife used to commercial snappers with out of Indian Pass. So I reliaze smal boats can do a lot.

However, 4 guys in a 17' KW is WAY WAY different that you (by your own words here...) SOLO in a 17' whaler, or Sting Ray in his 19 ft boat.

Has nothing to do with local vs non-local. Four adult men off shore in a 17 ft KW that pull up on another boat that's already fishing... THOSE GUYS ARE RANK AMATUERS. Plain as that.

Later

Popeye
07-09-2011, 01:04 AM
Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

Whalercrazy
07-09-2011, 08:39 AM
Get over it redfish. Next time fly a flag saying I paid for this spot. Usually if there are two or more boats anchored on a mark I was going to fish I will move on to another. Just don't like to crowd folks, if you are drifting the mark, I am staying. Everyone gere appreciates your financial generosity by adding habitat, but you don't own it. But honestly, you need to get over it

Ron-da-vu
07-09-2011, 08:50 AM
Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

Don't know about everyone else, but your comments not appreciated by me. You purposely trying to start an argument? Lets talk constructive fishin.

Sea-Lie'n
07-09-2011, 09:32 AM
jeesh

kanaka
07-10-2011, 01:36 PM
Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

******bag

Popeye
07-10-2011, 03:29 PM
:Rockon
Get over it redfish. Next time fly a flag saying I paid for this spot. Usually if there are two or more boats anchored on a mark I was going to fish I will move on to another. Just don't like to crowd folks, if you are drifting the mark, I am staying. Everyone gere appreciates your financial generosity by adding habitat, but you don't own it. But honestly, you need to get over it I dont understand why Im a scumbag. I dident create a post to Whine about somthing WE have no control over. Why dident you handle the situation out there? Why whine about it here? Little to late. WE ALL have an interst in these seas, WE dont own any particular "spot" no matter what youve been told. Its just one more fact of life. There are more hobbies that one could pursue that are more "gentle" for ones concept of "fair".:Rockon

Popeye
07-10-2011, 03:31 PM
******bag Watch it man.

upinthewater
07-10-2011, 09:34 PM
My question is, you stayed there with a boat beelining for your spot?

Popeye
07-10-2011, 09:42 PM
My question is, you stayed there with a boat beelining for your spot? See? Oh yeh. Im a scumbag. Like it or not, your still on earth. WTH?

upinthewater
07-10-2011, 09:51 PM
I actually didn't see this was 4 pages long until I made my first post in this new forum, also many tempers and feather ruffled (as in popeye's reply). After reading thru, I see I was covering ground all over again. Oh well.

Shame all the old settings and everything went away, even down graded to a junior member - whatever that is

redfish86
07-10-2011, 10:04 PM
Sounds like to me, those four guys had a better time than you. Whats the matter?, Your motor wouldent crank? Or were YOUR #s In a parkinglot? WAWAWA. I Think you need atowel to dry your sissy eyes.

Can someone please remind me when school starts?

redfish86
07-10-2011, 10:06 PM
Get over it redfish. Next time fly a flag saying I paid for this spot. Usually if there are two or more boats anchored on a mark I was going to fish I will move on to another. Just don't like to crowd folks, if you are drifting the mark, I am staying. Everyone gere appreciates your financial generosity by adding habitat, but you don't own it. But honestly, you need to get over it

So, how does that 17' Key West ride anyways? Must have been a LONG ride to make it 13 miles from the Destin pass.

redfish86
07-10-2011, 10:09 PM
My question is, you stayed there with a boat beelining for your spot?

I had moved to check another spot about 8/10ths of a mile away. We left the other boat behind. (the guy at the helm was a guest from out of town) As I made my way back, I noticed the Key West about a mile away. Our other boat had 3 fish on and by the time they reeled them up, cleared the deck, etc. the 4 clowns in question were upon us.

Popeye
07-10-2011, 10:10 PM
Can someone please remind me when school starts? Whenever the teacher gets your shiney apple. You lucky Suck!

Ron-da-vu
07-11-2011, 03:17 PM
Whenever the teacher gets your shiney apple. You lucky Suck!

I thought we were rid of this kind of post. Senior member? You be a troublemaker. I shall ignore ya from now on Mr Popeye! Goodbye!

fisheadgib
07-11-2011, 07:03 PM
To the OP, was this about five miles south of the tower in Navarre? If so, I know the boat.

jad1097
07-11-2011, 08:11 PM
regardless of who owns the ocean I know people that spends thousands and thousands putting out structure and if some one rode up on one of them and tried that stuff, there'd be trouble.....


I've heard of people shooting flares at others, pulling guns, even heard of 2 guys getting into it and someone putting a round of buckshot threw the others outboard. I'm not saying its rite, I just know when someone spends that kind of money, they do think they own it and mix that with alcohol and no one being in site and you could find trouble.

Seems like some of the people you know are scum. Is it even legal for them to create the structures they have?

upinthewater
07-11-2011, 08:31 PM
Man that is a bummer, but when guest visit, you got take care of em :)

Maybe garbo-keywester and his band of banchees won't overdo it on your place. It is always a bummer when you lose one, but we all know it happens. Good luck

stingwray
07-11-2011, 09:16 PM
This thread is out of control IMO, guys fishing should be fun and enjoyable (as it always has been for me and those on my boat) getting worked up over a # or a boat beelining for you is crazy. Please follow my rules on the gulf and your fishing experience will be a lot more fun for you and the crew on board.


Just my .02
If i am running to one of my #'s and see a boat within a couple of miles i don't fish that #. Next never anchor on a # you don't want to give away. Last if you are fishing one of your # and a boat is making a beeline toward you within a couple of miles, just go to your next #. It has worked for me for over twenty years.

BigRick
07-12-2011, 09:27 AM
Seeing people argue online if pretty entertaining.... Just gotta realize that if they aren't doing anything illegal there's not much you can do...If you have a problem with me you won't get very far unless your standing in front of me....

BigRick
07-12-2011, 09:31 AM
Seems like some of the people you know are scum. Is it even legal for them to create the structures they have?

Yes, there are permits that can be obtained and rules for materials and size on dropping structure.

fisheadgib
07-12-2011, 10:38 AM
Turns out that I do know the boat and no, I wasn't on it but I have fished on that boat several times. It is pretty amusing reading all the assumptions that people make with a minimal amount of information. The three passengers on the key west were embarrassed about running up on your boat but the owner did it on purpose. He's kinda lacking in etiquette in such matters and didn't do it out of ignorance, he did it on purpose. He wanted to steal your numbers! He said that even he would have moved if he saw someone heading towards him but one of the boats stayed there at least 15 minutes after he ran up on you. I've got to point out that I don't condone this behaviour and so you know I'm not trolling, I believe ya'll were in an everglades CC and some white walkaround. As for the guys that claimed they must be amateurs or tourists because they're fishing in a small boat, well you're off base a little also. Three of the four on that boat were born and raised here and two of them own bigger boats. One of the guys owns a 39 footer and another owns a 32 footer. They just like fishing the smaller, cheaper boat. (incidently that 17' is 17'-10")
I don't apologize for them and I don't blame you for being angry but that's the way life is in the big city. I get people running up on me pretty regularly when I'm 20 to 40 miles out in the middle of nowhere and it bugs me but I don't let it ruin my day. When you think you're alone and a mid 20's walkaround loaded with a family comes out of nowhere and runs a fast circle around you or if you're 20 some miles out on a public spot in an area of numerous spots and a boat pulls up about 30' from you and starts fishing, I just shake my head and look for the next spot.

OrigCapRon1
07-12-2011, 02:54 PM
I really see no problem with someone doing that. That is life---unless you own the rights to that spot. You really should always guard against someone running up on you---if you did not take precaution---shame on you. I put my FADS down this year in too shallow of water and every boat in Destin fished them. I caught ZERO there because they were hammered. Thats life I guess. BTW---were they chicken coups?

Panhandler80
07-12-2011, 03:35 PM
Not slamming anybody, or trying to start a fight, or anything like that. BUT, I'll stand by the following statement...

A 17' KW with four adults on it that runs up on another boat that's already fishing is MORE THAN LIKELY a boat full of amateurs.

That being said, I was saying cut them some slack because I figured they just didn't know any better. Turns out I was wrong and the boat was just full of butt holes. Not because he is stealing any fish or doing anything illegal, but it's just annoying to have another boat run up on you like that and crowd your space and it's rude.

I don't believe it's illegal for the person in front of me to take forever at Subway while she shuffles her feet, smacks on her gum and yaps on the cell phone while ordering... still made me mad, and it was incredibly rude to those behind her and the guy behind the counter..

I don't believe it's illegal to drive under the speed limit in the left hand lane while there's another car in the right hand lane going the same speed.

I don't believe it's illegal to set up a ladder stand on public property on opening morning at 8:30 am, or 5:00 pm.

I don't believe it's illegal to not tip a waiter that did a good job.

I don't believe it's illegal to run up on someone's lobster spot while they're already on it in the dark during 1st day of mini season in the Keys, either. Those fellas in the KW should try that one year and see how it turns out for them!!!!!

Point is, the 17 foot key west with 4 dudes in it... either amateurs and they should be cut some slack. Or butt holes and I hope that their boat won't start next time they try to go. Obviously, they irked the OP enough that it ruined his day, maybe they should have a day ruined some time soon. Oh, and the OP, yeah... you probably shouldn't wine too much... even though you did build the spot. It is part of it... not that you don't know this. I'd probably come on here and **** and moan a little bit too.

Navy_Fishing
07-12-2011, 04:29 PM
This is the reason I used to get numbers when out flying. Being a Navy aircrewman, we would take flights and go out and mark on top all the anchored boats that were offshore. I'd check out the numbers when i was out in my own boat and sometimes they were good and sometimes not. Never had to worry about sinkers or guns or anything else.

stingwray
07-12-2011, 05:06 PM
I have no dog in this fight but i will say this... I have seen great boat captains and fishermen in smaller boats 21' and under with boatloads of fish and i have seen poor boat captains and fishermen in larger boats 21' and up with little or no fish at the end of the day. Sayin that to say this, size of your boat has nothing to do with how many fish you will have in the box at the end of the day. But time on the water will improve your daily catch. Just because you have a small boat it doesn't make a poor captain or bad fisherman. I have owned a smaller boats and thought of myself as a good captain and caught plenty of fish.. i now own a larger boat which i can fish more people reduce the cost and keep more fish with todays lower bag limits and closed seasons. If either the poster or the guy in the other boat would have followed my rules on the gulf this post would have never started in the first place. JMO

Panhandler80
07-12-2011, 05:13 PM
And I never said it did. I said two or three times that lots of good fishermen fish small boats for one reason or another.

Onto the relation of my statements to this particular thread:

Let's say your a betting man.

A 17 foot boat with 4 people on it runs up on another boat that's already fishing. You must bet... A) Rank Amateurs, or B) Old Salt

You're going to go with Choice A every time. Don't lie!

I went on to say, because they would likely be Choice A in a real world scenario... I'd cut them some slack.

If they were Choice B... then shame on them.

Not sure why this thread has gotten so dang personal. Geeze.

sharkatak1089
07-12-2011, 05:20 PM
This is the reason I used to get numbers when out flying. Being a Navy aircrewman, we would take flights and go out and mark on top all the anchored boats that were offshore. I'd check out the numbers when i was out in my own boat and sometimes they were good and sometimes not. Never had to worry about sinkers or guns or anything else.

This rules!

OrigCapRon1
07-12-2011, 06:20 PM
I just cant believe people have spent 6 pages of defending why they are mad at some guys coming to fish beside them---when they just could have pulled away. Enough already.

stingwray
07-12-2011, 06:26 PM
Not sure why this thread has gotten so dang personal. Geeze.
I hope you haven't taken any of my replies as personal, as my statements have been broad based real world. Next as i said before:banghead if one or the other of these guys would have followed my rules of the gulf this would have never happen in the first place. I hope there is some learnings from this to help others not to have these type of conflicts on the gulf in the future. GONE FISHIN
Sting

Ron-da-vu
07-12-2011, 06:36 PM
Well maybe everyone has gotten it out of their system. Hot weather makes ya irritable anyways. The guy in the airplane makes it crystal clear that there are no "secret private" spots. Your spot has prolly been fished when you were not around! The more people out there fishin, the more this is gonna happen. We all need to learn to cope.

Popeye
07-12-2011, 06:43 PM
Like I said, Why dident you take care of it out there? With those four guys? I think we get the picture. After all, It was only a Keywest 17. WaWaWA

OrigCapRon1
07-12-2011, 07:42 PM
No temper flaring here.

Was just saying that that I bet StingRay's old 19 foot boat was way bigger of a boat than the new 17 ft KW.

And yes, 4 people on a new KW who pull right up on another guy (tourist or not... no difference) is more than likely a new fisherman. THIS is why I said that in his DEFENSE, he just associated those numbers with a spot where he'd caught fish before. Had he known it was two small pieces of structure, he might have let the original poster sit on it. That's all. We're kind of in agreement here. I was saying cut the guy some slack... clearly he didn't know what he was doing out there, the whole 4 people in a 17' KW.

As to you and your 17' whaler.... AGAIN, whole different ball game. Again, look at USABLE space, that old 17 whaler has as much room as most 19s out there. To this day, I use a 3' x 3' x 3' box that a gentleman and his wife used to commercial snappers with out of Indian Pass. So I reliaze smal boats can do a lot.

However, 4 guys in a 17' KW is WAY WAY different that you (by your own words here...) SOLO in a 17' whaler, or Sting Ray in his 19 ft boat.

Has nothing to do with local vs non-local. Four adult men off shore in a 17 ft KW that pull up on another boat that's already fishing... THOSE GUYS ARE RANK AMATUERS. Plain as that.

Later


You either did not check your facts---or just do not know boats. I have been in both a Key West and a Whaler---and there is no comparison in either size or ride. I dont mean to come across as a know it all---but I have two different friends that own eack of these boats, and I have been in both.

Capt Ron

Popeye
07-12-2011, 07:47 PM
I just cant believe people have spent 6 pages of defending why they are mad at some guys coming to fish beside them---when they just could have pulled away. Enough already. Enough already? Why are you back? Oh, you want this thread to top 7.

Panhandler80
07-12-2011, 08:21 PM
You either did not check your facts---or just do not know boats. I have been in both a Key West and a Whaler---and there is no comparison in either size or ride. I dont mean to come across as a know it all---but I have two different friends that own eack of these boats, and I have been in both.

Capt Ron

Hahaha. Okay, man.

I've been in both as well. I must say that an old Montauk or Newport 17 has a LOT of fishable / useable space. Not once did I mention ride. I simply said that I knew a guy who commerical'd red snapper out of an old 17 whaler back in the day with a 27 cubic foot ice box.

Cathedral hull means beam is carried out below the deck = more usabl space. Modern modified V hull at 17' means beam is at rub rail and you get diminishing space at the sole. THat plus the fact that the deck footprint of an old whaler is a freakin' rectangle. A KW looks like a bullet. This = less space.

Also, the only reason I even brought up the Whaler thing was in DEFENSE of folks who go out in small boats. My point was and IS that an old 17 whaler has more usable space (as in DECK SPACE... shoud FOUR LIKELY amateurs decide to beat their way offshore in it) than a 17 ft KW. Plus I was defending the poster who says he goes solo in his old 17 whaler... he's going SOLO in a boat with more usable deck space. THerfore I said, that makes sense. Anyway, older boats focused on function, not ride. Check your facts, home skilet.

ThHis thread is absurd.

1. More real estate on deck on an old 17 whaler than new KW

2. Any boat that runs up on a spot while it is already being fished is likely full of amateurs.

3. The chances of this being a boat full of amateurs increases as the boat becomes smaller and passengers approach capacity max.

4. If it was an amateure (which in 90% of the cases the 4 dudes on a new KW would be) cut the guy some slack.

5. If not an amateur, then shame on him.

6. No law was broken.

7. I'd be mad too if I was there first, especially if I sank the wreck, but it does happen.

8. Keep an eye out for approachng boats.

Later, Capt. Ron.

sharkatak1089
07-12-2011, 09:18 PM
Enough already? Why are you back? Oh, you want this thread to top 7.

It's still on page 2 for me......

OrigCapRon1
07-13-2011, 10:02 AM
Hahaha. Okay, man.

I've been in both as well. I must say that an old Montauk or Newport 17 has a LOT of fishable / useable space. Not once did I mention ride. I simply said that I knew a guy who commerical'd red snapper out of an old 17 whaler back in the day with a 27 cubic foot ice box.

Cathedral hull means beam is carried out below the deck = more usabl space. Modern modified V hull at 17' means beam is at rub rail and you get diminishing space at the sole. THat plus the fact that the deck footprint of an old whaler is a freakin' rectangle. A KW looks like a bullet. This = less space.

Also, the only reason I even brought up the Whaler thing was in DEFENSE of folks who go out in small boats. My point was and IS that an old 17 whaler has more usable space (as in DECK SPACE... shoud FOUR LIKELY amateurs decide to beat their way offshore in it) than a 17 ft KW. Plus I was defending the poster who says he goes solo in his old 17 whaler... he's going SOLO in a boat with more usable deck space. THerfore I said, that makes sense. Anyway, older boats focused on function, not ride. Check your facts, home skilet.

ThHis thread is absurd.

1. More real estate on deck on an old 17 whaler than new KW

2. Any boat that runs up on a spot while it is already being fished is likely full of amateurs.

3. The chances of this being a boat full of amateurs increases as the boat becomes smaller and passengers approach capacity max.

4. If it was an amateure (which in 90% of the cases the 4 dudes on a new KW would be) cut the guy some slack.

5. If not an amateur, then shame on him.

6. No law was broken.

7. I'd be mad too if I was there first, especially if I sank the wreck, but it does happen.

8. Keep an eye out for approachng boats.

Later, Capt. Ron.




I do not think it is appropriate to mention any names, but it appears to me after reading this thread that "some" people MAY need to get a life. :kick

redfish86
07-13-2011, 11:32 AM
Turns out that I do know the boat and no, I wasn't on it but I have fished on that boat several times. It is pretty amusing reading all the assumptions that people make with a minimal amount of information. The three passengers on the key west were embarrassed about running up on your boat but the owner did it on purpose. He's kinda lacking in etiquette in such matters and didn't do it out of ignorance, he did it on purpose. He wanted to steal your numbers! He said that even he would have moved if he saw someone heading towards him but one of the boats stayed there at least 15 minutes after he ran up on you. I've got to point out that I don't condone this behaviour and so you know I'm not trolling, I believe ya'll were in an everglades CC and some white walkaround. As for the guys that claimed they must be amateurs or tourists because they're fishing in a small boat, well you're off base a little also. Three of the four on that boat were born and raised here and two of them own bigger boats. One of the guys owns a 39 footer and another owns a 32 footer. They just like fishing the smaller, cheaper boat. (incidently that 17' is 17'-10")
I don't apologize for them and I don't blame you for being angry but that's the way life is in the big city. I get people running up on me pretty regularly when I'm 20 to 40 miles out in the middle of nowhere and it bugs me but I don't let it ruin my day. When you think you're alone and a mid 20's walkaround loaded with a family comes out of nowhere and runs a fast circle around you or if you're 20 some miles out on a public spot in an area of numerous spots and a boat pulls up about 30' from you and starts fishing, I just shake my head and look for the next spot.

Please feel free to show him (the "Captain") my original post then. I'm really not whining so much as venting and pointing out that a little etiquite goes a long way. I stand by my original post. Dbag behavior is dbag behavior.

Intentionally running up on someone to steal a number? GMAFB. Tell him to get RADAR to steal spots more disecretely.

azzclowns.

Don't worry though. The big fish aren't on that one anyways.

Panhandler80
07-13-2011, 12:55 PM
You say...


You either did not check your facts---or just do not know boats. I have been in both a Key West and a Whaler---and there is no comparison in either size or ride. blah blah

I responded WITH facts and all you can come with is the following:


I do not think it is appropriate to mention any names, but it appears to me after reading this thread that "some" people MAY need to get a life. :kick

Wow. I never made anything here personal. You went down that path and I foolishly followed you down it. Do I need to get a life? Maybe. I really might. And YOU sir, need to grow up! You wanted to play the fact game, I obliged and then you go back to name calling.

Too funny.

OrigCapRon1
07-13-2011, 02:45 PM
Please feel free to show him (the "Captain") my original post then. I'm really not whining so much as venting and pointing out that a little etiquite goes a long way. I stand by my original post. Dbag behavior is dbag behavior.

Intentionally running up on someone to steal a number? GMAFB. Tell him to get RADAR to steal spots more disecretely.

azzclowns.

Don't worry though. The big fish aren't on that one anyways.




Yes they are---you just have to know how to catch them! LOL

redfish86
07-13-2011, 08:59 PM
Yes they are---you just have to know how to catch them! LOL



Really? I guess the guy on the bow with that innovative high sticking manuever that kept missing fish "knew how to catch them" huh?

At least have the balls to admit it. Find your own s**t to fish. OR at the very least have the gray matter between your ears not to be a dbag. Better still, spend the money, do the work, do the research, go through the red tape, and take the time to put your own s**t down.

I knew I'd out one of you idiots eventually in this thread.

You may have found that one but I guarantee you won't find any more.

He'll, If you think it's so generous of me to give you free fish, why don't you publish the d**n number here so everyone can enjoy?

redfish86
07-13-2011, 09:01 PM
BTW, admitting to illegally dumping garbage (FADs) in the Gulf on an open forum ain't too smart "Capatin". I'm sure the CG, DEP, FWC, and Okaloosa County would be very interested in info like that.

fisheadgib
07-13-2011, 09:49 PM
You may have found that one but I guarantee you won't find any more.

He'll, If you think it's so generous of me to give you free fish, why don't you publish the d**n number here so everyone can enjoy?


I ran into the guy today and learned that he has been following this thread. He said that he noted the heading that you were from him while he was on your one spot. On Sunday you posted that it was about .8 miles away and between that and the heading, he said it took him a little over two hours but he found it. He claims both spots are pretty equal in quality and he would rather not share them. He also said that if he were fishing one of them and he saw a boat heading toward him, he would quickly get away from the spot.

redfish86
07-13-2011, 10:00 PM
Please tell him to f off from me. He's obviously a ***** who is too lazy to do his own damn work.

It's all good though. I've got many more.

And as I stated earlier, if he thinks it's so cool to be a lazy bastard then just make the numbers public.

Azzclown

redfish86
07-13-2011, 10:11 PM
I'd also like to re assert panhandler80's "rank amateur" assessment. If they're such bad azz, lifelong residents and fisherman, why are they poaching spots off weekend warriors?

Navy_Fishing
07-14-2011, 03:07 AM
Please keep this thread going, I have to have something to read at night! This is a classic middle school match up!

redfish86
07-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Please keep this thread going, I have to have something to read at night! This is a classic middle school match up!

It is amusing isn't it. I guess I should just let it go. At the very least I need to be more discreete as it appears I may have given up another spot! At least I can laugh at myself though!

OrigCapRon1
07-14-2011, 09:26 AM
I'd also like to re assert panhandler80's "rank amateur" assessment. If they're such bad azz, lifelong residents and fisherman, why are they poaching spots off weekend warriors?



Ok---so THEY are rank amatuers---right? But they were not the one's that failed to move off of their spot that they invested in (like ANY good fisherman KNOWS to do)---and THEY did not publish exact distances to their next spot only to be outed again.(again---another really questionable move by you) Seems like there may be a rank amatuer---but the guy's with 2 new fishing spots with ZERO investment don't seem to me to be the rank AMATUERS to me! Just sayin.

OrigCapRon1
07-14-2011, 09:32 AM
BTW, admitting to illegally dumping garbage (FADs) in the Gulf on an open forum ain't too smart "Capatin". I'm sure the CG, DEP, FWC, and Okaloosa County would be very interested in info like that.




I will be expecting someone to knock on my door any minute. Should I go home from work to wait? LOL

You need to grow up and realize you have been totally abused by these guys. You are upset at them---they are laughing every time they fish your spot---I am SURE! LOL

redfish86
07-14-2011, 09:42 AM
RIF.

I don't claim to be a lifelong resident, or expert fisherman. Did I not describe myself as a "weekend warrior" above? Yet even with my comparitive lack of experience, I still have the courtesy to not be a d**k don't I? I do pretty well thank you. And I also admitted that giving additional information that caused yet another spot to be found and exploited by these idiots was a stupid move on my part.

This whole situation is actually interesting to me. It is indicative of the situation in our Country right now. Feeling of entitlement, lack of respect for others (personally and materialistically), and a lack of common freakin courtesy realy are a drag on us as a whole.

I'm pretty much done with this. The idiots know who they are and know they're idiots even if they won't admit it. This truly has turned into a middle school spat with grown men displaying lack of maturity that is astounding to me.

Griz (or whoever) please fell free to delete this whole debacle.

Once snapper season is over I'll publish the #'s just to burn y'alls azz.

OrigCapRon1
07-14-2011, 10:20 AM
RIF.

I don't claim to be a lifelong resident, or expert fisherman. Did I not describe myself as a "weekend warrior" above? Yet even with my comparitive lack of experience, I still have the courtesy to not be a d**k don't I? I do pretty well thank you. And I also admitted that giving additional information that caused yet another spot to be found and exploited by these idiots was a stupid move on my part.

This whole situation is actually interesting to me. It is indicative of the situation in our Country right now. Feeling of entitlement, lack of respect for others (personally and materialistically), and a lack of common freakin courtesy realy are a drag on us as a whole.

I'm pretty much done with this. The idiots know who they are and know they're idiots even if they won't admit it. This truly has turned into a middle school spat with grown men displaying lack of maturity that is astounding to me.

Griz (or whoever) please fell free to delete this whole debacle.

Once snapper season is over I'll publish the #'s just to burn y'alls azz.


I actully agree with much you say here. You are just coming across a little whiney. I agree---this is def junior high material---but WAS amusing. I agree---let bygones be bygones.

Panhandler80
07-14-2011, 11:06 AM
Four adults in a 17ft KW that like to run up on other people, REGARDLESS of what the original boat is fishing: As a whole, the group on board MUST be one of the three things...

1. Rank amateurs, cut em some slack
2. Combined IQ of about 350
3. Complete and total scalawags with no sense of common courtesy or decorum when it comes to fishing out there.

90% of the time it is going to be Class 1. above. Which is why I gave them the benefit of the doubt at first.

Turns out, according to their own admission, that the 17ft KW in question was full of 100% Class 3... dare I say, citizens? hahahaha.

I don't know about 100% Class 3 though. I have my own theory about this.

I say this because it's not very often that you find a Class 3 that ISN'T also a Class 1. That is not to say that the two are mutually inclusive. You can DEFINTELY have a plain ol' Class 1 that's not a Class 3, and that's usually how it works. Plain ol' Class 1ers are the ones that you say "aw shucks" about and cut them some slack because they just don't know any better.

So, you can be a Class 1 and NOT be a Class 3, but it is VERY RARE to come across a guy who is a Class 3 and NOT a Class 1. Fact of the matter is, most people who have been doing it for a long time repsect other people's space. These experienced folks (and I'm one of them) would rather catch fewer fish, than tick off somebody that's out there trying to have fun doing the same that they enjoy. So, a Class 3, that's not a Class 1 is pretty darn rare. We MAY have found just a true, died in the wool BUTT HOLE that has no respect for other people. I know they're out there, you just don't see them that often.

All of that being said, I think the false bravado, "Yeah we ran up on you, we don't care, it's pubilc water, blah blah blah" is just embarassment coming out and the guys are bowing up like a little rat dog does when a big boy walks up just to sniff his butt.

Stop bowing up you freakin' rat dogs. It's okay to admit that youre a little rat dog hybrid... a hyrid of Class 1, 2, and 3. You'd like the world to think that youi're just a bad azz Class 3 that kicks butt and takes no names, but we all know that you're really:

1. 1/3 rank amateurs (allegedly your dead reckoning is pretty darn good. I bet you used to grouper fish with shore-ans to, didn't you!? Liar)
2. 1/3 plain ol' stupid
3. 1/3 discourteus mooches

That's a pretty foul rat dog hybrid right there.

Fellas, the more I think about it, we probably should leave these hybrids alone. I have found in life that you're most likely to get hurt (or at least have a situation turn ugly) when you deal with somebody who 1. Knows just enoguh to be dangerous, 2. Is stupid. 3. Is mean.

That being said, I'll still request one more thing of these uninformed, dimwitted and unpleasant clowns:

17KW nincompoops... I know you all stay very busy with chart plotting and all, but if you get a few spare moments, would you mind doing this furm a huge favor? All I ask is that you take turns slamming each others fingers in a door a few hundred times. Oh, but before you do that, take those fingers while they're still good and go unbolt that motor off the back of the KW while she's in a slip. Will make another nice little illegal spot for you and thay you can fish right there at the dock instead of bothering other people. I realize that the fish won't be real big, but with thoser busted up fingers, I doubt you'll be able to handle much more than a bream buster and 8" sea bass.

Later

OrigCapRon1
07-14-2011, 11:31 AM
Four adults in a 17ft KW that like to run up on other people, REGARDLESS of what the original boat is fishing: As a whole, the group on board MUST be one of the three things...

1. Rank amateurs, cut em some slack
2. Combined IQ of about 350
3. Complete and total scalawags with no sense of common courtesy or decorum when it comes to fishing out there.

90% of the time it is going to be Class 1. above. Which is why I gave them the benefit of the doubt at first.

Turns out, according to their own admission, that the 17ft KW in question was full of 100% Class 3... dare I say, citizens? hahahaha.

I don't know about 100% Class 3 though. I have my own theory about this.

I say this because it's not very often that you find a Class 3 that ISN'T also a Class 1. That is not to say that the two are mutually inclusive. You can DEFINTELY have a plain ol' Class 1 that's not a Class 3, and that's usually how it works. Plain ol' Class 1ers are the ones that you say "aw shucks" about and cut them some slack because they just don't know any better.

So, you can be a Class 1 and NOT be a Class 3, but it is VERY RARE to come across a guy who is a Class 3 and NOT a Class 1. Fact of the matter is, most people who have been doing it for a long time respect other people's space. These experienced folks (and I'm one of them) would rather catch fewer fish, than tick off somebody that's out there trying to have fun doing the same that they enjoy. So, a Class 3, that's not a Class 1 is pretty darn rare. We MAY have found just a true, died in the wool BUTT HOLE that has no respect for other people. I know they're out there, you just don't see them that often.

All of that being said, I think the false bravado, "Yeah we ran up on you, we don't care, it's public water, blah blah blah" is just embarassment coming out and the guys are bowing up like a little rat dog does when a big boy walks up just to sniff his butt.

Stop bowing up you freakin' rat dogs. It's okay to admit that youre a little rat dog hybrid... a hyrid of Class 1, 2, and 3. You'd like the world to think that youi're just a bad azz Class 3 that kicks butt and takes no names, but we all know that you're really:

1. 1/3 rank amateurs (allegedly your dead reckoning is pretty darn good. I bet you used to grouper fish with shore-ans to, didn't you!? Liar)
2. 1/3 plain ol' stupid
3. 1/3 discourteus mooches

That's a pretty foul rat dog hybrid right there.

Fellas, the more I think about it, we probably should leave these hybrids alone. I have found in life that you're most likely to get hurt (or at least have a situation turn ugly) when you deal with somebody who 1. Knows just enoguh to be dangerous, 2. Is stupid. 3. Is mean.

That being said, I'll still request one more thing of these uninformed, dimwitted and unpleasant clowns:

17KW nincompoops... I know you all stay very busy with chart plotting and all, but if you get a few spare moments, would you mind doing this furm a huge favor? All I ask is that you take turns slamming each others fingers in a door a few hundred times. Oh, but before you do that, take those fingers while they're still good and go unbolt that motor off the back of the KW while she's in a slip. Will make another nice little illegal spot for you and thay you can fish right there at the dock instead of bothering other people. I realize that the fish won't be real big, but with thoser busted up fingers, I doubt you'll be able to handle much more than a bream buster and 8" sea bass.

Later

Wow---someone seems a bit butthurt. Or as I said before---SERIOUSLY needs a life. That post is so long I did not even read it. Third grade must not be in session today! LOL BTW---spellcheck COULD be a friend of yours---you must try it!

Panhandler80
07-14-2011, 11:49 AM
Not hurt one bit. Wast just calling you out for being what you are; 1/3 amateur, 1/3 simpleton and 1/3 jerk. I know you can't help being a simpleton, and yes that probably has a lot to do with the fact that you're an amateur... I mean it's hard to improve when you have a virtually flat learning curve. Couple the inability to learn with your dim wit and it only makes sense that you're a mean spirited jerk.

I'm sorry. Maybe I should have left you alone, and maybe it is best that you run up on other boats. Lord knows somebody needs to be near by to save your dumb azz when something bad goes down. I'll do my best to leave you be now. You have been exposed for you are, my job here is complete.

As far as needing a life; maybe, but I don't think so. Spell check... I agree I did type a lot up there, fortunately I'm able to type fairly quickly. If it would make you feel better I'll use spell check from now on. I realize that mispelled words might be hard for you to recognize... you know, the whole simpleton thing. I presume that this is why you didn't read it. Obviously if I leave out a letter or transpose a couple, your feeble mind spends way to long trying to decipher that particular word. I know this makes it very difficult for for you to absorb the content of a sentence and most definitely of an entire paragraph.

Also, and contrary to your post about needing a life, I do have one and I opted to not waste an additional minute going through and spell checking my numerous errors.

I also didn't do it on this post.

If you have a hard time figuring it out, let me know and I'll re-post it for you. I realize that I write a thrid grade level, so if you'd like, I'll also use a very large font and maybe include some illustrations for you. I know kindergarten is more your speed.

Split Shot
07-14-2011, 12:53 PM
Wow! That was a lot of energy spent on nothing but anger. :p

Panhandler80
07-14-2011, 12:58 PM
Nah... not really.

Just an occasional diversion during the day. I thought it was pretty funny actually.

OrigCapRon1
07-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Not hurt one bit. Wast just calling you out for being what you are; 1/3 amateur, 1/3 simpleton and 1/3 jerk. I know you can't help being a simpleton, and yes that probably has a lot to do with the fact that you're an amateur... I mean it's hard to improve when you have a virtually flat learning curve. Couple the inability to learn with your dim wit and it only makes sense that you're a mean spirited jerk.

I'm sorry. Maybe I should have left you alone, and maybe it is best that you run up on other boats. Lord knows somebody needs to be near by to save your dumb azz when something bad goes down. I'll do my best to leave you be now. You have been exposed for you are, my job here is complete.

As far as needing a life; maybe, but I don't think so. Spell check... I agree I did type a lot up there, fortunately I'm able to type fairly quickly. If it would make you feel better I'll use spell check from now on. I realize that mispelled words might be hard for you to recognize... you know, the whole simpleton thing. I presume that this is why you didn't read it. Obviously if I leave out a letter or transpose a couple, your feeble mind spends way to long trying to decipher that particular word. I know this makes it very difficult for for you to absorb the content of a sentence and most definitely of an entire paragraph.

Also, and contrary to your post about needing a life, I do have one and I opted to not waste an additional minute going through and spell checking my numerous errors.

I also didn't do it on this post.

If you have a hard time figuring it out, let me know and I'll re-post it for you. I realize that I write a thrid grade level, so if you'd like, I'll also use a very large font and maybe include some illustrations for you. I know kindergarten is more your speed.




Just to clear this up---I have NEVER owned a Key West in my life. I am not who you may think I am---just an old Boat Captain that knows to move off of my spots when approached. And not to whine when I make mistakes.

Sea-Lie'n
07-14-2011, 07:31 PM
Ok, That's enough of this BS... everyone has made their point and accomplished nothing.... Any more insults and I'll delete this thread and ban you all.... Oh wait...I can't do that any more. :grin:rotflmao

donald811
07-15-2011, 12:58 PM
Ok, That's enough of this BS... everyone has made their point and accomplished nothing.... Any more insults and I'll delete this thread and ban you all.... Oh wait...I can't do that any more. :grin:rotflmao:Spittingcoffee

Panhandler80
07-15-2011, 01:51 PM
Ok, That's enough of this BS... everyone has made their point and accomplished nothing

Which makes this thread different from 75% of the other threads how? ;-)